Prestige Obsession

Parents Forum
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<p>Well at least jfk jr didn't get tossed for cheating like his uncle teddy.</p>

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<p>Oh hey.</p>

<p>I'm adding that, around here, people often say things to the effect of, "Oh KU has a great law school." My relatives in Oklahoma say the same thing about OU.</p>

<p>So I guess around here, those ARE "name" schools. It might be the same way in other places.</p>

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<p>My sense was that this is not true for southern California, so to test it I looked at the website for the LA office of Latham and Watkins, one of the top law firms in LA. I clicked on the profiles of all the partners with names A-H to see where they went to law school. The score:</p>

<p>UCLA: 8
Harvard: 7
USC: 6
Yale: 3
Michigan, Loyola, BYU: 2 each
Penn, NYU, BC, BU, UCSF, Iowa, UVa, WashU, Berkeley, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Georgetown: all 1 each.</p>

<p>UCLA and USC are the local big dogs, but it looks like Harvard law School still carries sigificant prestige in Los Angeles.</p>

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<p>I kind of agree with Amused, at least in this respect: I've been told that there are certain fields, such as appellate law, that only hire from "select" law schools (with great name recognition).</p>

<p>On the other hand, I know a lawyer on the West Coast who did undergrad & law schooling at Publics, yet works for a very fine, ritzy firm now, & makes a very handsome salary. (Don't know the specialty, merely know he makes an enviable income.)</p>

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<p>Do you think lawyers make more $$$ than doctors, assuming you could do either?</p>

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<p>Difficult question mensa. You average internist or pediatrician versus a top corporate lawyer? The lawyer hands down. A top surgeon versus a small town lawyer? The surgeon. MDs are making money in many different ways today. An orthapedic surgeon can run a sports medicine clinic and make a fortune from the business. Doctors invest in medical centers and in equipment, etc. to make money beyond their practices in many cases. Personal injury lawyers can make millions on a single case. Public defenders and DAs make very little. Partners in major law firms make over $1 million/yr. in good times.</p>

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<p>It's true about the value of a state U. law degree here in Florida....the attorneys here with big practices all went to UF for their law degree....and undergrad, too.....they're all connected with each other....a Harvard Law grad would have to start from scratch with no connections.....may be VERY different in southern Fla., though.</p>

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<p>I've noted that several threads regarding prestige turn into law school discussions. Interesting...</p>

<p>Coureur: My bro (HLS) worked for Latham Watkins in their DC and LA offices 15 years ago. It is a large national firm highly desired by top law students. I don't find it unusual that the LA office has many HLS grads. Associates and partners move to branch offices where their particular expertise is needed.</p>

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<p>I have to admit I'm somewhat a victim of the "prestige obsession." The best school I was accepted to last year was Boston University COM, and I was just so amazed that I got in that I almost felt like I had to go. Yes, it is partially an ego thing, and partially a "validating the parents" thing, and also a sense of, I worked hard all 4 years to get into a good school (NYU was my first choice, rejected). But mostly it a was a confusion thing. I never should have applied to a communications school in the first place, and unfortunately their performing arts program does not match what I'm looking for. </p>

<p>Luckily for me, I deferred admission and have come to realize my mistake and am applying to different schools for the fall. However, I must say I agree with an earlier post that says there's a reason for prestige. Generally I find that the more prestigious schools do have more opportunities. As long as the school fits AND has what you are looking for academically, the most prestigious might actually be the best choice. But make sure you think it through thoroughly and dont use the prestige itself as a major factor.</p>

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<p>The corporate law route is not for everyone. It is a bastion of good ol boy, (now gal) prestige and IMHO low or neutral at best morals. If there is a polluter it is their client; same with a discriminator, a sexual harasser, an Enron, a union buster etc. (can't have the non college grads making more than $8 per hour, can we?) I know everyone deserves representation; so why not do it for those who pay the best?</p>

<p>Many successful, non corporate or big firm lawyers in good size towns make $150,000 to 300,000 and don't have to work the 90 hour weeks. The successful PI lawyers make even more. They don't have to fantasize about doing good work or doing "probono" sometime in the future. Of course this usually involves hard work, hustling, making contacts, marketing etc which is different activity from putting in years of 80 hours weeks to please senior partners. The small firm/solo route is not as sure of a thing if one has the patience to put in the 90 hours of obeying the senior partners' route. You start at less in your first years out of law school than the big firms pay.</p>

<p>A law professor of mine on these partners "their main interest in life is how to find enough bright young associates to do the legal work so that the practice of law does not interfere with their golf game."</p>

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<p>I don't find it unusual either. It agrees with my thought that, unlike what mini says is the case for Seattle, a Harvard law degree carries significant cachet out here in SoCal, and that a prominent Los Angeles-based firm like L&W will have a number of them at their home office.</p>

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<p>My goodness Texdad, do you really believe these things? First you were protecting your son from those elite colleges which are surely filled with the evil elite (including minorities who sold out) and now corporate law firms are filled with folks with no morals. Do you get out much?</p>

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<p>How can you tell if it is a dead snake or a dead lawyer in the road? There will be skid marks in front of the rat.</p>

<p>Come on kirmum the only group in america held in lower regard than lawyers are politicians - and most of them are lawyers too.</p>

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<p>Patuxent, I'd argue that lawyers are alone. There are of course CEOs, investment bankers and everyone else that make high incomes. There are snakes everywhere. But when someone presumes kids at ivy league schools are snobs and most corporate lawyers have no morals, it's clear they haven't been there, done that. I have, and I can assure you it's not true.</p>

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<p>Well I think if you can get past the negative generalizations about corporate law, Texdad has a point about non-corporate lawyers. He just described my dad and brother to a tee. Pardon the pun, I only make jokes and puns by accident.</p>

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<p>BTW, my lacking in morals large corporate law firm let me spend the last three years on a huge probono case. I made not one cent for the firm during that time. Keep in mind that good seniors attorneys in large firms bill from $700/hr up. Does the firm get new business or pats on the back for such work? No. Why did they support me? Because my partners believed.</p>

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<p>Liz, contact me and I can work on the jokes & puns thing. Individualized tutoring, set to your pace and hours by mutual convenience. No prior prep required.</p>

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<p>Actually are you sure it wasn't the US treasury that paid for that pro bono work - tax write-offs:-)</p>

<p>When all is said and done most Americans still agree with Shakespeare - "First we will kill all the lawyers." 400 years hasn't raised the profession in the eyes of most folks. Namely we have the best legal system money can buy.</p>

<p>Seriously though we are a nation of laws and so we are also a nation of lawyers. It is just that they seem to make their money one way or the other off of other peoples misfortune. Peter Angelos billing a billion dollars for the tobacco settlement. Or Geragos who as nearly as I can tell has never had an innocent client.</p>

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<p>Kirmum, as a rule, I think this is true. Are you telling me that you usually find big firm lawyers on the sides of EEOC claimants , sexual harassment victims, union workers, injured workers, those hurt by defective products, victims of toxic torts etc. I'm not talking about the rare pro-bono case. Of course two corporations disputing a complicated debt, many business transaction etc. are relatively neutral and common cases for these firms. I'm mainly referring to their labor law, environmental and similar sections.</p>

<p>Vinson and Elkins, if I remember correctly Alberto Gonzalez's firm, with several hundred lawyers, also played the Arthur Anderson role for Enron, but as lawyers. V & E lets their lawyers do an occasional pro-bono case. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the Enron lawyers did a pro-bono case or two in between helping Enron defraud the consumers of California and others.</p>

<p>In general these firms are nothing for most folks who want to do good to aspire to IMHO.</p>

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<p>Texdad, what I'm saying is that I find the vast majority of corporate lawyers have integrity, morals, and represent the clients that come to them to the best of their ability. Not everyone is employed in altruistic fields. Kudos to those that are. The companies that provide employment for much of the population tend to be the clients of large law firms. The deserve representation from honest folks, and on the whole, they get it.</p>