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And anyway, in the last year and a half, Penn's endowment has grown by about $1.5 billion, and just recently crossed the $6 billion mark.
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<p>and should grow signifcantly more in the next few years as Penn embarks later this year (October) on a fundraising campaign anticipated to exceed the $4 billion campaigns currently underway at a few peer schools.</p>
<p>to say that no one takes school selection seriously until after they get in is possibly the most absurd thing I have ever heard on this entire form and represents a completely naive view of the way most college applicants go about applying.</p>
<p>Applications are anything but free, and visitng schools is expensive as well, so suggesting that all students apply all over the place and only think about where they actually want to go after they get in is just ridiculous; who applies to a school they would never go to?</p>
<p>and on the hassle note, the issue of living in hanover, NH, where the school's campus is quite literally bigger than the town it's in, is a far, far greater decision for a prospective student to make than whether or not to write a single page on why they want to go to a school they should already have some level of interest in.</p>
<p>very well said phillySaser08..</p>
<p>Honestly, I don't see the point of arguing over which one is more "prestigious." Anyone who makes a decision between Penn and Dartmouth based on prestige doesn't have much sense, in my opinion. The two schools are so vastly different (hello, Philly v. Hanover?) that someone is definitely going to have a strong inclination towards one or the other no matter what. Decisions between these two are going to be made on the relative strength of certain programs and the vastly different settings.</p>
<p>The only exception to this would be someone preferring the general atmosphere of Dartmouth, but ending up at Wharton because the academic benefits outweigh other preferences.</p>
<p>Dionysus...What I'm saying is that actually, not just any school can claim to have an operting budget the size of its endowment. You don't see Harvard flashing around an operating budget of $30 billion. That's because operating budget is pretty much completely incidental to endowment size, so incidental in fact that there is really no relation at all.</p>
<p>45 Percenter...just a clarification: Most of that > $4 billion is not related to endowment growth, as it is a capital campaign, not an effort to grow the endowment. It's kind of like adding to an account that will act as an operating budget for specific projects over the years. Schools rarely tap directly into their endowments to fund things. In a way it's a lot like rainy day money. That's why Tulane was hit so hard after Katrina, because it had to dig deep into its endowment to stay afloat (i honestly just wrote that without thinking, and i'm also not going to make a joke about the rainy days part).</p>
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Unless you have some inside information, I don't think that's correct. For example, here's a quote from Penn's web site:
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While some private colleges and universities are able to fund significant proportions of financial aid through their endowments, Penn's endowment currently can cover only 13% of its student aid budget. In 2007 Penn will launch a major endowment campaign to help fulfill the University's commitment to make financial aid ever more effective.
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<a href="http://www.upenn.edu/compact/access.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.upenn.edu/compact/access.html</a> [Emphasis added]</p>
<p>A university's endowent includes its endowed scholarships, professorships/chairs, research funds, etc. While it's true that endowment principal is generally sacrosanct, some of the income from that endowment is used to help fund a university's activities (which is why it's so important!). I'm pretty confident that a major portion of Penn's upcoming fundraising campaign will be geared toward growing the endowment (e.g., adding endowed scholarships, professorships, chairs, etc.) In fact, growing the endwoment is usally a major goal of these campaigns, e.g.:</p>
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Further, the Campaign earmarked 1/2 of the funds for arts and sciences education while providing for 150 new endowed professorships. By the meeting of the Trustees on 20 October 1994 the Campaign for Penn had exceeded its original $1 billion goal. It raised $1.33 billion and tripled the University's endowment.
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<p><a href="http://www.archives.upenn.edu/histy/features/uplans/hackney.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.archives.upenn.edu/histy/features/uplans/hackney.htm</a> [Emphasis added]</p>
<p>And BTW, a university's "capital" (as in "capital campaign") would certainly include its endowment--a major portion of its balance sheet!</p>
<p>45 Percenter...you may be correct...I certainly hope you are because that would be awesome.</p>
<p>I do know that some funding comes from earnings off of the endowment, but most of it i think comes from revenue. I don't know much about the upcoming capital campaign...I was just going by what I generally thought was the distinction between the two, specifically because a large part of the money WILL be spent for sure.</p>
<p>Heyyy Johnnyk stop taking stabs at Columbia!</p>
<p>Let me know when either Penn or Dartmouth reaches a 8.9% Ivy-league record (tied w/ Yale) admit rate k?</p>
<p>Penn already gets more applications than Columbia. If we shrink our class size we'll be there.</p>
<p>As that is not happening, we will just have to increase our applications faster than Columbia, which we have been doing for at least the last two years.</p>
<p>k.</p>
<p>"Penn already gets more applications than Columbia. If we shrink our class size we'll be there."</p>
<p>Actually, you're analysis could be wrong. The increase in application in Penn, and to certain extent Cornell is mainly because of larger class size. You may not want to admit this but I believe majority of applicants to Penn applied because of increased chances, after all applicants have to consider only being within the top 2,500 or so to be admitted whereas in Columbia you have to be within the top 1,100 (I think) or 1,600 if you include the engineering school. It does not matter much if there are a gazillion applicants, the important thing is to place within the number admitted. I believe if Penn's admit rate is reduced to Columbia's level you will see a drop in applications.</p>
<p>Regarding questions about which ivy this and ivy that is more prestigious, sometimes I wonder how the heck that applicant got admitted into these ivies? ;)</p>
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<p>I do know that some funding comes from earnings off of the endowment, but most of it i think comes from revenue. I don't know much about the upcoming capital campaign...I was just going by what I generally thought was the distinction between the two, specifically because a large part of the money WILL be spent for sure.
If you're interested in more details about Penn's annual budget (e.g., endowment income appears to fund about 14% of it, with contributions funding another 10%), take a look at this:</p>
<p>More info on the focus of Penn's upcoming multi-billion-dollar fundraising campaign:</p>
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Universities usually conduct capital campaigns to raise money for new facilities. Penn officials say this one, currently in the "quiet'' phase of cultivating the biggest donors before going public, focuses on student aid and endowing faculty positions. Gutmann said her gift is a way of showing that building Penn's financial aid is a core mission.
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<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aPEKkNNeasV4%5B/url%5D">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aPEKkNNeasV4</a> [Emphasis added.]</p>
<p>So it appears that a major portion of the upcoming campaign will target endowment growth. Interesting article, by the way--well worth reading in its entirety.</p>
<p>haha not another Penn Columbia debate... let's just leave it at both are top notch. Penn's selectivity will increase and Columbia's will move to the hells of the BigThree in USNWR rankings.</p>