Previous Summer@Brown Folks -- Please Answer!

Colleges and Universities A-Z Brown University
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<p>My daughter took two of the supposedly “for credit” 7 week courses one summer in high school. Now she is at Brown and her transcript shows credit for one and no credit for the other (the grade in the second was an A). She was shuttled from the Registrar’s office to a dean, who said that only some of the courses get Brown credit and the others get “precollege” credit.</p>

<p>There is nothing on the web site saying that courses get different treatment, much less identifying which are which. If my daughter knew she wasn’t going to get university credit for this one course, she would have selected a different one. Doesn’t “full credit” mean precisely that? If the credit isn’t Brown credit, then what the hell is it?</p>

<p>I’m feeling royally ****ed right now, like they took money under false pretenses. My daughter is doing some followup with the school now. But I thought I would ask – did everybody else get full Brown credit for all courses taken or did some get something less than that? Is there anyone who got such credit for Recent Global Strife, which is the course at issue?</p>

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<p>Oh dear, I got censored. I guess I know now one word I can't use here. And it wasn't the really bad four letter word either ...</p>

<p>My first time using such a term in a post and it gets bleeped. Oh well, now you all know how angry I am right now.</p>

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<p>Sounds like Brown might be confusing this class with one of the mini sessions (which don't grant credit) or perhaps one of the classes your d took was pass/fail (those don't receive credit). </p>

<p>From Brown's website:</p>

<p>"Credit & Evaluation - Seven Week </p>

<p>A full courseload in the summer term is two courses and residential students must take a full load. Students enrolled in the the 7 week program are enrolled in credit-bearing university courses. Each course is worth 4 semester credit hours or 6 quarter credit hours. </p>

<p>For most courses, you will have the option of receiving a letter grade (ABC/NC) or a grade of Satisfactory/No Credit (S/NC) for each course you take. When you register for your courses, we will assume that you wish to receive a letter grade unless the course is designated mandatory pass/fail, S/NC. If you wish to change the type of evaluation from letter grade to Satisfactory/No Credit, you must file paperwork with the Office of Summer & Continuning Studies by the 11th day of classes." </p>

<p>Seven-week Program: Academics
Seven-week courses are carefully selected from existing courses in the Brown undergraduate curriculum or are newly created for the summer. Each course is approved by Brown’s College Curriculum Council for academic quality, appropriate workload, and equivalency to first-year Brown courses. Local students who can commute to campus may take one course. All residential students must take two courses. </p>

<p>In most courses, you will be evaluated by an "A", "B", "C", or "NC" grade. Please be aware, however, that in some courses (noted in the individual course descriptions), students will only be evaluated on a satisfactory/no-credit basis, rather than a letter grade. In addition, you will be coached to think beyond the "gotta have an A" trap. You will be encouraged to challenge yourself to explore subject matter in depth and to engage in the process of learning. You will retain more knowledge and think more effectively.</p>

<p>A note about academic credit</p>

<p>Transfer credit policies vary widely among colleges and universities. Interested students should contact their prospective college's admission office for more information.</p>

<p>DianeR
Was the other class pass/fail or satisfactoy/no credit? Did she get a letter grade in it? If she got a letter grade in both classes, then I would definitely call the summer program (separate dept from the college) and ask them what happened. I do remember people having trouble transferring those credits to other colleges (why my son didn't do the 7 week classes) but Brown should accept their own credits. That's crazy. I hope it's just a mixup.</p>

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<p>My daughter got grades in both classes. She tried to talk to the summer program folks on Friday but was referred to someone who wasn't there. So she'll try again on Monday ... I also told her to talk to the professor of the class that didn't get credit.</p>

<p>Thing is, the dean she talked to was so adamant that the transcript was correct. I don't see how it could have been a confusion with the mini sessions because those don't have grades! </p>

<p>I thought it might be useful to find out if something like this had happened to someone else and how and if it was resolved.</p>

<p>Yes, I went to the web site myself and read all you quote. I don't see how they can tell people that and only grant credit for some of the seven week courses.</p>

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<p>DianeR,
I agree with you. If your d got passing letter grade in both 7 week classes then she should get credit. As for the mini classes, the students do/can get grades. My son got As for both of his 3 week classes. Don't give up until you get this resolved.</p>

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<p>They must have changed things, then. My daughter first took a mini course following 9th grade and for that she didn't get a grade, but a written evaluation. This would help explain what the dean told my daughter. Of course, people have to take two seven week classes -- I don't know how the dean rationalized my daughter only having credit for one.</p>

<p>Oh, we won't give up. I was just looking at the "undergraduate and graduate" course catalog for the upcoming summer session and it lists the course she wasn't given credit for. So the dean's insistence that the course in question is "not an undergraduate course" is mistaken.</p>

<p>I hope we can get this resolved soon. I keep mulling it over. But we are trying to have my daughter be the one to talk to them -- learning to deal with bureaucratic mistakes is an important life skill.</p>

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<p>Did she take the course with Brown undergraduates? If so, it seems extremely peculiar that she wouldn't get credit for it, as the Brown undergraduates must have. From what you've said, it does seem like a mistake has been made, and I (as a Summer@Brown alum) hope that it gets resolved.</p>

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<p>I don't know if she took it with undergraduates or not. The courses were available to both the high school students admitted to the program and undergraduates. The description I recall is that all courses were for credit. It makes no sense that one would get credit and the other wouldn't.</p>

<p>The latest wrinkle is that my daughter today got an email from a different dean claiming that the program changed in 2004. Prior to that (the two courses dd took were in 2003), the courses allegedly did not yield credit. So, according to this individual, the mistake is that my daughter was given credit for one course! Interesting, this isn't our recollection -- she would have taken courses at another university then -- and it contradicts what the other dean said.</p>

<p>So, my daughter has emailed back saying exactly this and asking for proof that the program has changed. She also asked (at my prompting) for the name of the individual at the university to whom she could appeal this matter so as to resolve it without the need of the involvement of outside authorities. Do you like that one? Well, my husband is an attorney (me too, but I haven't practiced since parenthood intervened) and his first thought was to refer them to the consumer fraud agency in Rhode Island. And/or sue. I was also thinking about a complaint to the accreditation folks. But we need to work our way up the ladder first, and I hope things won't reach that point.</p>

<p>My suspicion is what we have is folks trying to create justifications for something, rather than simply admitting there is a mistake and correcting it.</p>

<p>I wish there were some way of reaching alumni of the program from 2003 and earlier but I don't know of any way of doing that. I am now curious how many received credit.</p>

<p>Any other suggestions as to how to proceed (and to whom) will be most appreciated!</p>

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<p>Woah, why would you sue the University? Clearly there's just been some kind of miscommunication within the administration and some people have no idea what they're talking about. Talk to whoever is in charge of the summer program, and find (if you can) the letter or pamphlet where they told you that all summer programs would be for credit. Also, you could talk to the individual departments in which your daughter took courses -- the heads of those departments could verify whether they take credit for the courses she took.</p>

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<p>We don't still have the information. This was in the summer of 2003. I didn't foresee the need to print what the web site said or hang on to any literature. However, my recollection and that of my daughter is that the courses were for college credit -- that is how the program was advertised and what we paid for. She would have gone elsewhere if the Brown courses were not credit-bearing. </p>

<p>My daughter has so far talked to two people seemingly in charge (one of the registrar's office, and one of the summer program) who have told her contradictory things, neither one of which makes any sense. It was necessary to ask the name of the person to whom to appeal because the current situation is unacceptable and the people she's talked to are either unable or unwilling to resolve it. </p>

<p>The mention of "outside authorities" is to make sure we simply aren't ignored.</p>

<p>The courses she took are listed as undergraduate courses in BOCA. So of course they take credit for them. I don't see how talking to the departments will give us anything more.</p>

<p>I think it is a mistake, but people so far are resisting correcting it. We would only take action, as I think I said before, if we thoroughly exhausted all administrative remedies first.</p>

<p>I hope I don't come across as irked at you; I'm not at all. I'm irked at the situation. Being right doesn't mean it will be easy to fix. An employee at Brown has told my daughter to stick to her guns and that it may take a LONG time to find someone who will actually rectify a mistake. I know from past dealings with them that the bureaucracy there is not the most efficient. (They've had me tearing out my hair several times before this.)</p>

<p>It would be useful to find someone who did seven week courses prior to 2004. But this is assuming that the next person we talk to doesn't come up with another excuse for not correcting the transcript. I remember a dispute we had with our local school system. At every level we were given a different excuse as to why we couldn't get what we wanted. Finally, when we finally had briefed an appeal to the school board, the superintendent stepped in and said we were right. (Didn't want any adverse board precedent from what I could tell.) But this took us MONTHS to accomplish ...</p>

<p>Maybe all my ranting here will work a reverse jinx and the problem will be resolved tomorrow, ya think? Oh no, now I've reversed the reverse jinx by mentioning it ...</p>

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<p>bump</p>

<p>Still hoping to hear from other folks who participated in the summer program. The second dean wouldn't fix anything, so my daughter is appealing to the next higher dean. Can't talk to her until Monday.</p>

<p>So examples of people getting college credit for the seven week courses will still be useful to hear ...</p>

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<p>I have a friend who doesn't even go to Brown but received credit at her university for her summer at Brown session about three years ago.</p>

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<p>Thanks, ag388. I told my daughter. She talked to her third dean today, who at least recognizes that there is a mistake (or at least, that there seems to be a mistake). But she says it is yet another office that would be in charge of correcting it. So dd is going to her fourth person now ... at some point, you would think she could find who was responsible for her transcript and who could correct it.</p>

<p>Sigh ... I guess this is a good education for her in dealing with bureaucracy. Take good notes and keep plugging away. At least she hasn't yet been referred to someone she has already talked to!</p>

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<p>Oops, now she has been referred back to an office she already talked to. Now she's trying to work that one out ...</p>