Princeton -- "a little tardy"???

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
1

<p>Princeton has long had the reputation as the Ivy where the "old gentility" and "seclusion" lingered a little longer than at other places. But I recently ran across this, which surprised me --- Princeton didn't admit its first black student until almost 80 years after Harvard and Yale:</p>

<p>"Black alumni looking back, 1996</p>

<p>Posted on October 8, 2010 by Helene van Rossum </p>

<p>Harvard offered its first degree to an African American student in 1870, with Yale following in 1874. At Princeton, however, the first two black students graduated only in 1947 and 1948, after arriving on campus as members of the Navy’s wartime V-12 program. Historically the “Ivy League school for Southern gentlemen,” Princeton was a little “tardy,” according to Cornel West (then director of the Center for African American Studies) in the documentary featured here (32:01). In the words of Franklin Moore, Associate Director of Admissions 1970-1980: “If you had a segregationist attitude or would like to cherish that attitude a little longer before real life hit you after you graduated, this was the place to come to.” (31:35)."</p>

<p>Of course, there is also the media attention that is often focused on the fact that, at until the last decade, Princeton attracted relatively fewer Jews than its peers -- I remember this article in the NYT from a while back:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/02/nyregion/princeton-puzzle-where-have-jewish-students-gone.html"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/02/nyregion/princeton-puzzle-where-have-jewish-students-gone.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Do you really think that at this point there is much difference between Princeton and its peer schools?</p>

2

<p>I doubt that there’s much of a difference anymore. They’re all diverse (relatively speaking, of course).</p>

<p>However, in my area, Princeton is known as sort of the confederate ivy. More specifically, we view it as the northern South in terms of its student body and educational philosophy. This is just its reputation, though.</p>

3

<p>princeton is known to have the least amount of diversity on campus out of all the ivies. </p>

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<p>“princeton is known to have the least amount of diversity on campus out of all the ivies” - Really? By what measure?</p>

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<p>@Cantiger
<a href=“https://www.princeton.edu/admission/applyingforadmission/admission_statistics/”>https://www.princeton.edu/admission/applyingforadmission/admission_statistics/&lt;/a&gt;
Compare those statistics with those of other Ivy Leagues. </p>

6

<p>Shutterstock - I have compared Princeton’s stats with several of the other Ivies and Princeton is fairly similar to most of them (the exception is Columbia, which is more diverse, possibly due to its location and/or outreach). Here are Princeton’s stats as well as those for Cornell, Yale, Harvard and Dartmouth for the most recent class:</p>

<p>Princeton
African American 8%
Asian 21%
Hispanic/Latino 10%
Multi-Racial 4%
Native American under 1%</p>

<p>Yale
African American 9.9%
Asian American 20.2%
Latino 10.2%
Native American 2%</p>

<p>Dartmouth
African American 8%
Asian American 18%
Latino 7%
Native American 4%
Multi-Cultural 2%</p>

<p>Harvard
African American 11%
Asian 20%
Hispanic 12%
Native American 3%</p>

<p>Cornell
African American 7%
Asian American 16.5%
Multi-Racial 4.7%
Hispanic 12.1%
Native American 0.5%</p>

7

<p>Well not certain if this is the kind of info you are in search of, but I thought I would share. (numbers) <a href=“Black First-Year Students at the Nation’s Leading Research Universities : The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education”>http://www.jbhe.com/2013/11/jbhe-annual-survey-black-first-year-students-at-nations-leading-research-universities/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I was able to find this on Jewish population (numbers) from 2011. <a href=“http://reformjudaismmag.org/_kd/Items/actions.cfm?action=Show&item_id=2888&destination=ShowItem”>http://reformjudaismmag.org/_kd/Items/actions.cfm?action=Show&item_id=2888&destination=ShowItem&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As far as current climate or atmosphere, I think that newer information (less 15 years old) would be more beneficial.</p>

8

<p>Here’s a rough comparison between Yale’s and Princeton’s statistics for the class of 2017. </p>

<p>See Yale’s numbers below with Princeton’s in brackets:</p>

<p>Background (from Yale’s report)
The following is based on self-reported
affiliation information solicited from applicants
and students once they arrive on campus.
A total of 39% of freshmen are US citizens or
permanent residents from minority groups.
Categories do not add up to 100% because
14.9% of freshmen indicated two or more
ethnicities and are therefore counted in more
than one category.</p>

<p>African American 9.9% (8%)
Asian American 20.2% (21%)
Hispanic 10.2% (10%)
Native American 2% (<1%)
White 61.9% (not reported)
International Students 10% (12%)</p>

<p>Princeton also includes a category of Multiracial (non Hispanic) of 4%</p>

<p>At the outset it may appear that Yale is more diverse but they indicate in the introduction of their reported statistics that the total is not 100% (quite a bit more than 100% actually) since some students self-reported two or more ethnicities. Since Princeton includes a separate category of Multiracial students, it’s not improbable that the ethnic mix of applicants between the two schools is essentially similar. In fact 14.9% were counted twice in Yale’s report so it’s possible that Princeton is actually more racially diverse. </p>

<p>Here are Harvard’s reported statistics for the class of 2017:</p>

<p>African American 11%
Asian American 20%
Hispanic or Latino 12%
Native American or Pacific Islander 3%</p>

<p>Harvard does not report Multiracial students so most likely those students are reported in a different category above. For example if a student is bi-racial (African American/white), which category does Harvard include them in? </p>

<p>Bottom line…all of these schools work hard to have a diverse class each year - and not just racially, but economically and in other ways as well. Of course there will be small differences from year to year between schools - I’m just not certain that saying “princeton is known to have the least amount of diversity on campus out of all the ivies” is entirely accurate. </p>

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<p>Actually Cantiger, you’re being too kind. Shutterstock’s statement is just plain inaccurate. To the extent that relatively small differences matter, Princeton is clearly more diverse than Dartmouth and Cornell and probably more diverse than Yale (at least for the class of 2017). As you have pointed out, these figures will change from year to year, but Princeton is clearly as diverse as many/most of the other Ivies </p>

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<p>No, I don’t think at this point Princeton is much different from its peer schools - at least in that respect. </p>

<p>Shutterstock’s claims are in obvious contradiction with the facts. </p>

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<p>Our Harvard friend Nat Sherman is back with a relevant question—</p>

<p>“Do you really think that at this point there is much difference between Princeton and its peer schools [in regard to Blacks and Jewish students]?”</p>

<p>My answer would be “yes”. In fact Princeton’s recent history shows that it’s doing a bit better than its peers.</p>

<p>According to the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education:</p>

<p>“Ranking America’s Leading Universities on Their Success in Integrating African-Americans”</p>

<p><a href=“http://dopey.cs.vt.edu/courses/diversity-F10/readings/Academia/2002-ranking%20universities%20african%20americans.pdf”>http://dopey.cs.vt.edu/courses/diversity-F10/readings/Academia/2002-ranking%20universities%20african%20americans.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>JBHE [Journal of Blacks in Higher Education] has ranked America’s leading universities according to their relative success in attracting, enrolling, and graduating African-American students as well as their progress in bringing black professors to their campuses. Universities are ranked according to a blending of 13 widely accepted quantitative measures of institutional racial integration.</p>

<p>Ranking of 36 Leading Universities</p>

<p>1----Duke
2----Emory
3----Princeton
4----Washington University
5----Vanderbilt
6----UNC Chapel Hill
7----Georgetown
8----Harvard
9----U. of Virginia
10–Brown
11–Columbia
12–Stanford
13–Yale
14–Rice
15–Cornell
16—MIT
17—Penn
18—Dartmouth
19—U. of Michigan
20—Berkeley</p>

<hr>

<p>Journal of Blacks in Higher Education
(2006 Analysis of Black graduation rates at leading colleges)</p>

<p>95%–Harvard
94%–Princeton, Amherst, Wellesley, Williams
93%–
92%–Yale, Brown
91%–WUSTL
90%–Stanford
89%–Northwestern
88%–Smith
87%–Columbia, Dartmouth, UVA, Wesleyan
86%–Penn, Rice, Duke, Swarthmore, Wake Forest, Hamilton</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.jbhe.com/latest/additional_items/highestblackgradrateschart.gif”>http://www.jbhe.com/latest/additional_items/highestblackgradrateschart.gif&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<hr>

<p>Actually, you may be interested to know that Harvard and Yale didn’t admit their first Black students until about 70 years after the first American colleges began to do so. Middlebury, Washington & Lee, Amherst, Bowdoin, Dartmouth, Oberlin, the University of Delaware and many others were admitting Black students decades before either Harvard or Yale (or Princeton). Here’s a little history for you.</p>

<p><a href=“Key Events in Black Higher Education : The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education”>http://www.jbhe.com/chronology/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I think there are also legitimate questions about the treatment of Black students even today at both Harvard and Yale. Nat, do you have any comments on these incidents or can you provide some perspective?</p>

<p><a href=“Blacks Cite Racism in Summer School | News | The Harvard Crimson”>http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1968/8/6/blacks-cite-racism-in-summer-school/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“For some, such as Wayne Peeler, from Pittsburgh, the question of subtle racism at Harvard is, “null…It’s like asking, ‘Does the weather exist?’ It’s a matter of degree, sometimes it’s stormy, sometimes it’s mild, but you know it’s there.”</p>

<p><a href=“Locked out? Black? Tough! - Yale Daily News”>http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2007/12/14/locked-out-black-tough/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“Yale Students to Protest Racist Acts on Campus - The New York Times”>http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/11/nyregion/yale-students-to-protest-racist-acts-on-campus.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“A group of Yale University graduate students is organizing two daylong moratoriums on classes to protest recent racist acts on campus, including an anonymously circulated hate letter and derogatory graffiti. These incidents are only the most blatant manifestations of racism at Yale, the organizers, both black and white, say.”</p>

<hr>

<p>Now as for the treatment of Jewish students on campus, there are certainly still problems at both Harvard and Yale.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/11/24/christian-journal-run-harvard-students-posts-apology-for-controversial-essay/DqbIWNylEWYxyvMatYK9FI/story.html”>http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/11/24/christian-journal-run-harvard-students-posts-apology-for-controversial-essay/DqbIWNylEWYxyvMatYK9FI/story.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“An apology was posted Saturday by a [Harvard undergraduate] Christian journal that had published and republished an anonymous essay on its blog saying that Jews killed Jesus and deserve God’s punishment.”</p>

<p><a href=“Groups decry swastika on Old Campus - Yale Daily News”>http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2008/02/25/groups-decry-swastika-on-old-campus/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“Concerned e-mails circulated around campus yesterday after nearly a dozen students — including six brothers of the primarily Jewish fraternity Alpha Epsilon Pi — discovered a swastika symbol and the “SS” insignia sculpted in snow on the trunks of two Old Campus trees at 3 a.m. Saturday.</p>

<p>While they said they are upset by the symbols, members of Jewish campus groups have not yet announced any formal public response to the incident.</p>

<p>The appearance of the symbols comes during a year when two other anonymous incidents — including the spray-painting of ■■■■■■■ school” and “drama fags” on University property in November — have caused a stir on campus.”</p>

<p><a href=“Racist Harvard Finals Club Flier: 'Jews Need Not Apply' | HuffPost College”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;

<p>“Several Harvard students received a racist pamphlet on Friday advertising a club to which ‘no f***ing jews’ were allowed but “coloreds” were “ok” the Harvard Crimson reported. The pamphlets, which were delivered in sealed envelopes under students’ dorm room doors, advertised “Harvard’s Newest Final Club” i.e. one of Harvard’s 14 single sex social clubs. The club, called the “Pigeon” (perhaps a play on the Final Club propensity to name their establishments after animals) was ostensibly promoting a party situated in a local frozen yogurt shop. The attire was dubbed “Semi-bro.”</p>

<p><a href=“Campus Reacts To Inflammatory Flyers | News | The Harvard Crimson”>http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/11/30/final-club-invitation-door/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>“Christopher H. Cleveland ’14, president of the Harvard Black Men’s Forum, wrote in an email that he thought the invitations, regardless of their intent [n.b. there was a suggestion that the flyers were meant as satire], had gone too far.
“As students of a university with a very peculiar history concerning ethnic and racial relations, we should be working together to build up each other,” Cleveland wrote. The first final club to admit a black member was the Spee, in 1965; the Porcellian had no black members until 1983.</p>

<hr>

<p>I think it’s fair to say that all three of these institutions continue to evolve and undoubtedly there are regrettable incidents at each of them, but Princeton, at least according to recent relevant rankings and statistics appears to be leading the way to a better future in these areas.</p>

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<p>@Ptongrad2000 I’m not sure how a listing of articles from 1968, 2002, 2006, 2007, and 2008 regarding isolated incidents and old statistics denigrating Harvard and Yale answers the question regarding the Princeton of today. Maybe there is old history between the two of you, since the OP listed an article from '99, which might have been designed to irritate any lurking Princeton grads, and you let loose with that barrage.</p>

<p>I am interested in the Princeton of 2014, since my daughter is an applicant and she is biracial. There will always be individual racists at every school - that’s life. My interest is in the tone set by the institution. If she is actually admitted, which might be an unreasonable hope in this era of 6% admit rates, I will be very interested in the climate of tolerance at each school she is considering. I’m sure you will be glad to hear she decided skip applying to Harvard after we visited all of the Ivy’s. But she loved Yale.</p>

13

<p>Perhaps I should have stopped after the rankings by the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education. ;)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>In that you would be absolutely on the right track. I think you’ll find that the administrators of all three of these institutions attempt to set a tone of openness and respect for others while still trying to make sure that their institutions don’t stifle debate or suppress socially unpopular views. It’s a very difficult balance to achieve.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>In this, you would be absolutely wrong. I’m certainly not “glad” and she might be making a mistake. Like Princeton, Yale and many other peer schools, Harvard is a fine institution and would offer your daughter tremendous opportunities. There’s no harm in applying. One of the problems with unavoidably short college campus visits is that prospective students can come away with incorrect assumptions about the students and their lives on campus. I was accepted to all three of these institutions, attended Princeton as an undergraduate and decided on Harvard for law school. As an alumnus of the first two, I’m quite familiar with them. I’ve obviously spent less time at Yale but still know it reasonably well from friends and colleagues. I would encourage your daughter to consider applying to all three unless she truly feels that she would be uncomfortable at one or more of them.</p>

<p>As for our friend Natsherman, I think you’ll be able to answer your own question by reviewing his previous posts both here on the Princeton board and over on the Yale board. This thread was started for the obvious and sole purpose of reinforcing long outdated stereotypes. My poking back a little at Nat was simply a response. That having been said, you were absolutely correct to call me out on the article from 1968. Had I noticed the age of that article I certainly would not have posted it in this context and am now embarrassed that this slipped by me! I think you will notice, however, that most of the articles I posted are within the last decade and relate to incidents that are both current and relevant. The events were serious and resulted in much soul-searching on both the Harvard and Yale campuses. I don’t think you’ll find anything quite so newsworthy at Princeton during this same period of time though I’m sure there are racist incidents on the Princeton campus as well. On this topic, here’s a very interesting story questioning whether young people today are truly “post-racial”.</p>

<p><a href=“Colorblind Notion Aside, Colleges Grapple With Racial Tension - The New York Times”>Colorblind Notion Aside, Colleges Grapple With Racial Tension - The New York Times;

<p>Finally, one more independent voice evaluating the campus climate for minority students. (This one’s for Nat. :slight_smile: )</p>

<p>Here is Hispanic Magazine’s most recent ranking of the “Top 25 Colleges for Hispanics”. (I believe they no longer rank in terms of climate and have now replaced this ranking with one based almost entirely on the percentage of Hispanic undergraduates at each institution.)</p>

<p>2010 Hispanic Magazine</p>

<p>“Top 25 Colleges for Hispanics”</p>

<p>1—Princeton
2—Harvard
3—Yale
4—Williams
5—Amherst
6—MIT
7—Stanford
8—Swarthmore
9—Columbia
10-U. of Chicago</p>

<p><a href=“http://inspirationcentral.inspireculture.com/?p=305”>http://inspirationcentral.inspireculture.com/?p=305&lt;/a&gt; </p>