Princeton and Affirmative Action..? Chances?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
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<p>I'm an African American male high school junior and have "good" stats:
3.77 UW GPA, 4.25 W GPA
2150 SAT,
Around 200 hours of community
President of my class
President of student govt. association
Captain of tennis team
Secretary of my school's Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity chapter club
Member of the National Honor Society(running for an officer position at the end of the year)
Spanish club officer
Founder and president of my school's NAACP club
Model United Nations
I also started my own EBay in 7th grade and have made thousands of dollars in profit since.</p>

<p>Here is a list of the awards I have received:</p>

<p>President’s Volunteer Award
President's Silver Volunteer Pin
Ft. Detrick Volunteer of The Year, 2005
Ft. Detrick Volunteer Award, 2006
Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity Academic Honorary Award
National Student Leadership Conference Nominee
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Certificate of Honor
President’s Award of Academic Excellence
President’s Education Award
Ft. Detrick Coin of Excellence
302nd Signal Battalion Commander’s Coin of Excellence
2008 Academic Letter
Tennis Varsity Letter and Pin</p>

<p>All of my academic classes have been honors and I am taking 3 AP classes this year (AP Environmental Science, AP U.S. History, and AP Microeconomics) and plan to take four next year ( AP Statistics and Probability, AP Language, AP Macroeconomics, and AP Psychology)</p>

<p>I already know the two teachers that I am going to ask for rec. letters and they think very highly of me. I also know my guidance counselor very well and know the principal and vice principals at my school, so I know they would write stellar letters of recommendation. </p>

<p>So here is my question...</p>

<p>I know that Princeton University is a very elite and highly selective institution. I want to know whether or not I could have a shot in getting in? I think my downfall is my 3.77 UW GPA.</p>

<p>And also, will being African American help my chances at all?</p>

<p>If so, how much?</p>

<p>Any shared personal experience is welcome and thank you in advance. =)</p>

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<p>Jroc:</p>

<p>Why would you want to lean upon you race in order to get into Princeton? Wouldn't you rather get accepted to a school at which you'd qualify based on merit? </p>

<p>You've had 4 years of high school to amass an academic record, and you've done what you've shown here. I think you've done quite well.</p>

<p>I suggest you omit any reference to your race and get admitted to the school which matches you most wrt merit.</p>

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<p>I Totally agree with Dooglar. Unless you can honestly prove that your URM status has somehow impacted your ability to perform well in school (which it obviously hasn't) or provided unique life experiences (I am also an URM, btw), I doubt it will hold much sway on on the Admissions Committee. Yes, they have target minority enrollment percentages, but they just pick the best of the best, and that usually meets their goals.</p>

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<p>I personally believe being African-American helps a great amount in admissions - the University does not seem to be able to get "enough" qualified African-Americans and I think you have a very high chance of admission (btw that NAACP thing is going to look reallllly good during the admissions process).</p>

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<p>I think it’ll help you. Besides, it’s not like you need a tremendous about of help. You’d probably get in without mentioning it, but why take the chance? If you REALLY want to go there, then identify yourself that way. I know a black girl at my old school whose sister wanted to go to Harvard and didn’t get in. She said she thought it was because both her parents are MIT grads, her dad’s a pilot, and she wasn’t in the top 10% of her class. Guess Harvard expected someone with MIT parents to do better than she did. Who knows? GOOD LUCK!</p>

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<p>he’s not “leaning on his race.” it would be a lie to say that his race won’t be a factor(even if it is minor)</p>

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<p>It is impossible to predict chances for Princeton. But good luck!</p>

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<p>NO NO NO Count on who you are what you can do for yourself and remember if you get in will you be able to handle it and graduate??? if your answer is yes to all of the above you have the same chance like most of the applicants GOOD LUCK , I have to admit it is a great Institution and hope to see you in the fall.</p>

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<p>I am 100% against racial affirmative action (socioeconomic affirmative action is another matter entirely), probably especially because I’m Asian, the minority that gets the raw end of affirmative action. That said, if you are indeed a URM, I don’t see any ethical/character/etc. problem in being candid about that. The American college admissions system involves a slew of factors that probably shouldn’t be considered in determining who gets it–race, legacy status, “development admits”, even arguably the massive preference afforded athletes. If you’re not in one of these groups, you’re screwed, but if you are in one of these groups and you don’t mention/use/benefit from it, you’re screwed as well. “Not relying upon” your URM status doesn’t level the playing field; the field’s irrevocably unlevel.</p>

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<p>Your accomplishments and overall record seem excellent. You should base your decisions on your own hard work and skills instead of your race. I’m an Asian international student who probably will get absolutely rejected from Princeton, but I too feel affirmative action is not fair in most cases. But then again, I could be saying this because my school had a similar policy when choosing school prefects and I was a little disappointed because all of us were from the same economic backgrounds and some of us worked much harder than those who got the titles. Oh well!</p>

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<p>on a socioeconomic note:
my friend [4.3+ W gpa… blah blah all that stuff that goes along with that] applied to princeton and his family has a home business. now they just bought a new car[ like 16k i think?] and they claim an income of around 24k. do they really only make 24k? im just saying that more and more family’s who have home businesses are learning to deduct just about everything to place their family under the “poverty line” despite making a significant amount more than that… needless to say he took advantage of this in the interview… and in essays… so i think he has a pretty good shot now.
my family did this as well declaring an income of only, yes, 19k!! [we made almost 90k last year]
college is becoming more of a game really… and its getting easier and easier to cheat. haha</p>

<p>p.s. jroc i think youre a match for princeton.</p>

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<p>jroc92,</p>

<p>Let’s look at the 5-6 biggest things schools like Princeton look at.</p>

<p>a) High school transcript - GPA and difficulty of classes. (that 2nd item is frequently underestimated by applicants)</p>

<p>b) SAT/ACT scores</p>

<p>c) Extracurricular activities</p>

<p>d) Essay</p>

<p>e) Letter of recommendation</p>

<p>You are challenging yourself with the AP courses - good! Schools like Princeton look at that stuff. They don’t want valedictorians who took all the easy classes. (My alma mater, a top 20 school, turned down half of the valedictorians who applied a few years ago.)</p>

<p>Regarding the 2150 SAT score, they will probably focus more on the reading and math than they do on the writing, even though the writing has been shown to more predictive of success in college. (A lot of schools are wary about the writing scores right now.) I don’t have the average incoming SAT scores for Princeton in front of me, but if you’re over 1450 on reading and math and especially if you are over 1500, your odds are very good. You could always try the ACT if you thought you might do better, but try and compare your test scores against the averages. </p>

<p>Your extracurriculars are excellent. I don’t see how anyone could complain.</p>

<p>Spend a <em>lot</em> of time on your essay answers for Princeton. Answer from the heart, but make sure they are well-written. If you have an awesome English teacher who’d be willing to look it over or a friend of the family who is excellent in in writing, have them look it over. For our daughters, we had some family friends where the father is a professor look it over. My wife and I did <em>not</em> look at the essays for our two oldest children because we wanted them to write freely. Do not blow the essay off! If you can work on it in the summer a little bit, all the better. Make sure someone else reads them before you submit them.</p>

<p>If you have a good GC, then they will do their best to get the best kind of LoR from good teachers and they should make sure it’s well-written. This comes from 3-4 years of participating in class, being sincere and honest, etc.</p>

<p>Oh, one thing I forgot: if either of your parents was a PU alum, that helps. For the class of 2011, I believe 17-18% of incoming students were legacy applicants (one of the parents went to Princeton).</p>

<p>I think you have a very good chance, especially because of extra-curriculars and the challenging course load you are taking. I don’t know the breakdown of your SAT scores (and you don’t have to reveal them here), but that’s what I would work on increasing. If you have taken the SAT only once, be sure to take it again and study for it. If you have get your reading and math near 1500, I think your odds are very good. I hesitate because I fear misleading you (and I am only a parent) and maybe they will look at something else I am overlooking, but I think you have done a good job up until now. </p>

<p>With regards to your racial background: I am not big on affirmative action because I think it is covering up some big issues that need to be dealt with in certain communities and it sometimes places students into environments where they will fail because they are in over their head (there have been studies that show this.) Having said that, I think that in your situation, this is icing on the cake for Princeton and should help you. I can say that to you because I feel your odds are good even without the consideration of diversity. Hey, it doesn’t hurt that our First Lady is a black Princeton alum.</p>

<p>Last advice: be courteous, but be yourself in the interview and in your essay, write well, but write about something about which you are passionate (under the restrictions of the question.)</p>

<p>I am not a PU alum and no relatives went to PU, but one child is there now and the next one down just got accepted and is trying to decide. Good luck - I will say a prayer for you.</p>

<p>Techvet</p>

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<p>this may be oversimplifying the comparison, but i think you have an extremely good shot at getting in, considering that an african american student at my school was accepted with a lower uw gpa than you, and had 4.1 weighted; also your extracurrics most likely exceed those of him…you have a strong application regardless of your race, but i think given your race, it will help make your case even stronger. gl!</p>

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<p>thank you for prayer and advice techvet</p>