<p>Hi, I am very interested in public policy and international affairs. I got into Princeton and Duke. sooo hard to choose between these two excellent universities! Or should I say, hard to choose between the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs , and the Terry Sanford Institute of Public Policy.</p>
<p>Please help me with the decision-making! Thank you!</p>
<p>PRINCETON PRINCETON PRINCETON PRINCETON PRINCETON.
Because it's Princeton.
Haha, sorry, Duke is still on my list too, actually, and I'm interested in International Affairs. But I'm saying Princeton over DUke.</p>
<p>Thanks! Would you please give more specific reasons?</p>
<p>OK, well there are about a million reasons for me, but I'll just list in them in a rather nonsensical order. Firstly, everybody who I've ever talked to who has gone to Princeton or currently attends Princeton absolutely loves it. If you just look at the current Princeton students who post on CC, all of them adore Princeton. However, I have talked to a couple of people who go to Duke who think that some changes would be in order in order to improve Duke. Most people who go to Duke love it there, but I have never observed (in my own personal and rather ignorant experience) the same kind of widespread adoration of a school than at Princeton.</p>
<p>Secondly, I like Princeton's location better. NYC is only an hour away by train, and the suburb of Princeton is really safe. Some people don't like that Princeton is fairly isolated in terms of things to do immediately outside of campus, but I like that. Duke is in an actual city, and while I've never been to Durham (I'm going there in 4 days, though!), I have heard that it's not the safest of places.</p>
<p>Thirdly, Princeton has a huge focus on undergrads. From what I've heard, professors actually teach all of the classes and the undergraduate opportunities are incredible compared to just about any other school. This is probably one of the most important things to me, because I don't want to go to a school where TAs are my only interaction during my freshman year. I don't know if it's like this at Duke, but I would imagine the undergraduate focus is a bit less at Duke than at Princeton.</p>
<p>The alumni connections that Princeton can provide seem to be fairly incredible. Also, Princeton is beautiful. And it's the number one university in the nation. The Woodrow Wilson School of International Affairs is very highly esteemed.</p>
<p>The financial aid at Princeton is also unbeatable.
Because of all those reasons and the fact that I have wanted to go to Princeton since before I can remember, I will 99.999% choose Princeton over Duke.</p>
<p>Princeton is great, and I'd recommend it in any other field, but Duke's public policy is very very good. So, because the academics are comparable...a trip to campus is warranted! Duke and Princeton have very different social/academic environments and this should be your main factor in decisionmaking...</p>
<p>I actually really liked Princeton, but it's not as open or warm an environment as Duke (have heard this from Princeton students--do not flame me! I am a Princeton fan but I acknowledge that this is true). Princeton is established and content to be itself. Duke, however, is constantly improving and seeking greater heights, even though it is pretty good academically already. Read post #7 on this topic. I have heard similar things from many Duke students over the years and it really makes a difference in how you are treated at the university: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=11158%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=11158</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
this is going to sound corny (and I think I may have mentioned it before...not sure)-- but the reason that i came to duke was the fact that its never satisfied with how it is now; it's always looking for a way to get better. when i visited some elitist northeastern schools (i think you know the ones i refer to) they just kind of had the attitude of "yeah well we're really good and everyone knows it", but duke was really different (not that it's not really good), and that is evidenced by the recent building phase. we didn't look at it and say "oh well harvard has this, we better build one too" it was more like "what does harvard not have that we think will make us better" (not better than harvard but better than what we are now) and we also upgraded a lot of other things too. the list of stuff that we have done in the past ten years or so and is still being done is really quite amazing.</p>
<p>really that is the thing that has made the biggest impact on me. yes the campus is, of course, very beautiful, and the people are very driven in many ways, and there are lots of things to do, but i knew all of that coming in, and those things aren't necessarily limited to duke. for example, loveduke22's list above could describe a lot of great schools. but duke claimed to be truly, and almost aggressively, progressive, and i have found out that they're not just kidding around.</p>
<p>now, this particular aspect of duke isn't going to be something that most students may point out, i will admit that. but if you're like me and you truly desire to learn about and understand the institution you're getting involved with, it's not hard to see.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree with j07 on the undergrad focus that Princeton provides. It's very unique. I have, however, heard the flip side of that coin. A professor at Harvard once told me that he refuses to teach at Princeton because of its academic "attitude." Princeton places an emphasis on learning for the sake of learning--he used its lack of professional schools as an example when making his point about Princeton's insularity and hands-off attitude toward learning. This might be a good environment for you if you are a certain type of intellectual, but do be aware that it can be a stuffy turn-off for some. Location is a similar issue--Duke's location sucks, but the lively, constantly improving ethic at Duke is something you won't find in Princeton, where you are more likely to be looked down upon (I've had several such experiences at and around Princeton). So location is another double-sided thing--sure, Durham sucks, but Princeton's feel is also not ideal.</p>
<p>Good luck with your choice...you'd be making the right decision either way :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Princeton is established and content to be itself.
[/quote]
I'll have to challenge this one, MallomarCookie. :) Princeton is definitely an institution on the move. There are endless solicitations for suggestions from students on improving everything from dining hall food to the academic calendar. New initiatives on expanding the arts, sciences, whatever are always coming up. For example, Princeton is constructing a new "arts neighborhood" near the current location of the main campus theater (McCarter). This is after Princeton has been building the new science library. And after Princeton has just built a new residential college (Whitman) opening next year. And now the dining halls are slated to get brick pizza ovens for next year too. :)</p>
<p>I would say about ten years ago, you would have been right about Princeton simply being content with itself. But nowadays, that's really not the case anymore.</p>
<p>As for public policy and international affairs, I would say that the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton is hard to beat. WWS is very esteemed worldwide: this year, the Prime Minister of Pakistan and the U.N. Secretary General (Annan) both gave talks to undergrads. Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the U.S. gave a talk two or three months ago. About a month ago, Dan Rather and Time columnist Joel Stein had a live TV broadcast hosted by WWS. Less than a week ago, a vice president of the Bank of China gave a talk hosted by WWS. And just about every week, top professors (from Princeton and elsewhere), policy analysts, and other experts give seminars in pretty much every topic that could possibly be related to public policy. So there's no shortage of exposure to the top thinkers and doers in public policy.</p>
<p>Also, WWS has a unique feature called the taskforce, where a group of WWS majors research, present, and debate proposals to solve a current public policy problem, before coming up with a final report as a policy recommendation of the taskforce. Often, WWS will pay for study in the relevant countries as well. And these recommendations sometimes find their way to Congress and the United Nations.</p>
<p>It's hard to go wrong with Princeton. :)</p>
<p>according to foreign policy magazine, Princeton beats Duke:
<a href="http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3718&page=1%5B/url%5D">http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3718&page=1</a></p>
<p>As someone who goes to neither, I can say that I've heard of Woody Woo dozens of times, but never have I heard of anything about the Sansom thing or whatever at Duke.</p>
<p>I'm not a fan of either school but I still feel Princeton is an a league above Duke (oh wait, it is--HYP! That P doesn't stand for Penn...yet, anyway ;))</p>
<p>Visted brother at Duke (AB Scholar): Duke was full of funny, interesting people. Very smart, too; met a rhodes scholar and a fulbright scholar. Freshmen stayed out of their dorms in the hallways to talk to each other.</p>
<p>Visited brother at Princeton: a vague impression of arrogance, but extremely mature and friendly students. Met a IMO guy and a Sachs Scholar. Less smiles, I guess...but world-class professors, seemed much more rigorous academically.</p>
<p>OK so I just got back from a visit to both Princeton and Duke. I DEFINITELY think that Duke is more friendly...Level90Paladin is completely right. In every freshman dorm I went to (I only spent a decent amount of time in about 3), everybody was sitting outside their rooms talking and such. It was just an incredibly vibrant place, and I think there's an undercurrent of that kind of shiny happy athletic thing...or at least I perceived that.</p>
<p>At Princeton, nobody was very nice to me...it seemed like at Duke most of the freshman I came into contact with (even brief, like sitting on the bus randomly) introduced themselves warmly and gave me a quick (or lengthy) "Come to Duke!" spiel. I spent as much time at Princeton as I did Duke, and I just didn't feel like any of the current students cared that we were there at all. </p>
<p>That being said, I'm trying not to base my perception of either school off of one weekend. It's making my decision tough though.</p>
<p>Wow. The experience of my D and her friends is that Princeton is one of the friendliest places on earth. Whereas when I visited Duke with my son, I found the school was presented as fairly racially fractured, by the tour guide no less.</p>
<p>j07, that is the EXACT feeling I got too! I've spent several different weekends (not all for admissions) at Princeton and Duke and I repeatedly got those impressions! Thankfully, both are great schools so there is no wrong choice.</p>
<p>Hmm...that's interesting. I didn't really get that feeling at all. It's not that I thought Princeton students were unfriendly, because they were very friendly amongst themselves...just...not to me. That's probably quite selfish, but it's just my general sentiment.</p>
<p>edit: this was responding to alumother not mallomar</p>
<p>Yeah I have repeatedly heard and experienced that Princeton is a "closed" environment, academically and socially. Granted, some of the people who have confirmed my impression are Duke students...but hey they turned down Princeton!</p>
<p>I'm sorry to hear your weekend at Princeton didn't go as well as expected. The timing wasn't optimal: mid-April is about when many students have to get cracking on term papers (classes end first week of May; reading period and finals follow), and some seniors have not yet completed their senior theses (culmination of all independent work done at Princeton). Because our admit weekends are not particularly well-organized, the school was not in "spiel mode" and some of this stress was probably apparent to you. I like the frankness of non-spiel-mode, but I wish you guys came two weeks earlier to see us at play, not at work. :)</p>
<p>I was lucky enough to be hosted at Princeton in November, and I had basically the experience you had at Duke: random students were friendly and willing to help a not-yet-admitted prefrosh who had never traveled to the east coast feel completely welcome.</p>
<p>I haven't visited Duke, so I can't agree or disagree with your comparison, but please don't base perceptions off only one weekend. Good luck with your decision. :)</p>
<p>Yeah, Woody Woo is AMAZING...it's an incredible school with tons of amazing opportunities!</p>
<p>j07, should you choose Duke, I'm sure you will have a wonderful time and will get a great education. However, like Asquith, I hope you'll look past what might have been a less than perfect visit to Princeton on a rainy April hosting day!</p>
<p>Mallomar, you really should point out your own bias here. (I constantly point out mine!) I see that youll be a member of the Duke Class of 11 next year. Congratulations. But given that you havent been a student at Princeton, you should be careful about generalizations and the use of the word experienced.</p>
<p>Princeton is a very open place, as current students like Asquith will point out. It works extremely hard to create a welcoming environment for students of all types from all over the world. In terms of international relations, its programs are widely praised, with the Woodrow Wilson School singled out for its innovative teaching techniques and opportunities.</p>
<p>As was pointed out above, Foreign Policy Magazine recently ranked undergraduate programs in international affairs. The results of their evaluation can be found at the following link.</p>
<p>I attended Duke for about three weeks for one of those student enrichment programs, so I relatively know little about the staff or typical student population. What I CAN tell you about is the general campus.</p>
<p>Duke has two major campuses - the amazing, Gothic, architectural masterpiece of West Campus, with amazing buildings out the wazoo, and East Campus...which is decidedly...less impressive. Duke is located right next to the city of Durham, which is not exactly the best city in the world, but there are nice little stores and shopping districts hidden around, especially in the 9th Street shopping area, which is about 5-10 minutes walking distance from East Campus. For some reason, I liked West Campus' architecture slightly better than Princeton's. (Activates flame shield).</p>
<p>for what it's worth - which may be very little - around 90% of students with the choice between the two schools pick princeton.</p>
<p>i can count myself among this 90%. i was well acquainted with duke before applying and would have been happy to attend after admitted, but after seeing princeton in earnest, i realized that duke was just "princeton lite" - smart students but quite not as amazing as princeton's, handsome gothic architecture, but not quite as beautiful as princeton's (excepting duke chapel, which may well be the best building on any american university campus).</p>
<p>j07, I was at prefrosh weekend this year and had a blast. Everyone I talked to was very friendly and willing to talk about the college selection process and why I should choose Princeton. I guess a lot depends on what your host and his/her friends are like. I would feel sad to see you go to Duke after all of the enthusiasm you showed for Princeton over the past few months.</p>