Princeton ED vs. UMKC 6-year med

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello,
The title of this message is rather self-explanatory. </p>

<p>Basically, I'm seriously considering applying to Princeton ED, and then going to a separate 4-year medical program, but I'm not sure of the pros and cons versus, say, the UMKC 6-year combined medical program.</p>

<p>Leaving finances out of the discussion, what do you think about these two?</p>

<p>If you want to read my stats, they are below, otherwise there isn't really much to read besides the above paragraphs. Thanks for your help.</p>

<p>Asian male, Kansas City, KS, reasonably affluent suburb.
Top 3-5% of class at excellent public school
GPA and class rank, not including senior year (which I expect to be all As)
GPA: 3.96 (only Bs were 1st semester freshman year in Pre-AP Biology and Pre-AP Algebra II)
Weighted class rank: 13/about 400
Principal's Honor Roll all 3 years and expected to continue
Academic Awards (given if you do well in a particular class):
Sophomore Chemistry, Computer Programming, Overall Math Excellence (10)
AP Calculus BC, Spanish 3.0, Physics (11)</p>

<p>Tests:
ACT: 34 (retaking in October), 9 on essay
SAT: 2270 (M 720 CR 770 W 780), 9 on essay
SAT II: Chemistry 770, Math IIc 760, American History 760
PSAT: 210
AP: European History 3, Eng Lang & Comp 4, Calc BC 4, Calc AB subscore 5, Chemistry 3, American History 5</p>

<p>My English teacher thinks I'm quite the eloquent writer when I want to be, so I think my essays will be well-written and hopefully memorable. Recommendations should be pretty good as well (all my teachers either like or love me)</p>

<p>ECs:
Black and Veatch Explorer Post (engineering club) since freshman year.</p>

<p>Co-founder of model rocket club (10,11,12)</p>

<p>Member NHS (11,12)</p>

<p>Member Spanish Honor Society (11,12)</p>

<p>Volunteer work at hospital during summers of 03,04,05</p>

<p>Shadowed doc for half of summer 05</p>

<p>Student government class president (11), student body VP (12)</p>

<p>founding Member/officer of Teenage Republican club (11, 12)</p>

<p>Senior schedule:</p>

<p>AP English Literature
AP Statistics
AP Biology
AP Physics
Advanced Studies in Spanish 4 (weighted credit)
String Orchestra
AP American Government</p>

<p>I've taken the most challenging courseload possible since freshman year. This concludes my uber-question/hyperactive fit.</p>

<p>Again, thanks for your help!</p>

2

<p>If you're really sure you want to be a doctor, go for UMKC. This will save you a lot of $ and the stress of applying to med school later. Chances of getting into Princeton are slim anyway. (Your stats are great, but so are everyone's). How competitive is UMKC? I think public med schools tend to favor local students since they'll be more likely to stay around to serve the people of that state, so that might help your chances there.</p>

3

<p>I wonder if you can apply to both - Princeton's ED policy forbids any other early applications, but the UMKC med program has only one deadline, Nov. 15. Wouldn't that be considered a regular application? You might want to clarify that with the admissions office. </p>

<p>It seems a shame to pass up a good local program in favor of a slim chance in the Princeton pool. BTW, Princeton doesn't look at ACTs when you have SATs, so there's no point in retaking them. A 35 vs a 34 won't mean much to other colleges, either. Better to spend that time leading a volunteer effort or some other activity that shows how capable you are.</p>

4

<p>With the costs of medical school by the time you get there at roughly $200k, why would you leave it out of the discussion?</p>

<p>(If you are sure, I'd go UMKC as well.)</p>

5

<p>From what I have read, UMKC does not have the best of programs, and the doctors it graduates aren't up to par with their peers.</p>

6

<p>Thanks for all of your replies. It is my understanding that UMKC sends admit/reject letters in April and thus does not qualify as any sort of early/interim decision program.</p>

<p>Atomom, I'm pretty sure I'll get into UMKC (my parents apparently know the admissions director or something). What do you think the benefits of that program are compared to a conventional 4+4 program? That's probably the main conflict I'm facing-2 years of college life vs 2 years of extra income, experience, etc.</p>

<p>Right now what I want to do is figure out the pros/cons/prestige of UMKC vs. Princeton + medschool...</p>

<p>Nealc, comments like yours are what move me closer to the Princeton side...regardless of the actual quality of the UMKC program (and UMKC doesn't hold up well in the "snob appeal" game vs Princeton) I would assume that perceived quality is what may make or break a final decision on residency, employment, etc.</p>

<p>Mini, I asked that finances be left out because my parents have asked that it be left out of any discussion. They have told me that they will take care of any costs as long as I find the best option for me. I calculated UMKC's cost at approximately $360k, since my parents don't have MO income tax liability :-.</p>

<p>Thanks for all of your replies! I really appreciate your help-I'm exceedingly confused with all the paperwork, recommendations, etc flying around.</p>

7

<p>First question is how sure you are about medicine. Second question is where you want to live. UMKC should be great for practicing medicine in Missouri. the lesser fame (vs Princeton) will not matter at all. If you are certain that you want to practice medicine in Missouri, then UMKC is hard to beat. Not only will you resolve your medical school admission now, but you will have the opportunity to get to know the medical community for years, and be in a good position to get a job in the area when you finish training. However, the less sure you are about your future geographic preferences, the more appealing going to a bigger name college becomes. You will probably broaden your outlook on life by getting out of the state, and you will then consider medical schools, and training, around the country. These factors would favor looking elsewhere. </p>

<p>Remember that many people who enter college as premeds change their minds. I don't know how many drop out of the 6, 7, or 8 year programs, but some certainly do. The less likely it is that you will go into medicine, the more advantageous going to a prestigious college out of state becomes.</p>

<p>So you have posed an odd choice. If you want to practice in Missouri, then UMKC makes sense. However, why is Princeton the alternative? There are lots of terrific colleges and universities out there. The first decision should be "dedicated medical program vs conventional college education". If you choose "dedicated program" then you should be looking at Brown, Northwestern, etc., rather than Princeton. If you choose "conventional college" then there is the universe of places around the country. Princeton is a fine choice, but there are many others. </p>

<p>Since you cannot assume acceptance to Princeton, (I am not playing admissions expert, just pointing out that it accepts only a small percent of applicants), if it interests you, then look around and apply elsewhere as well. As I understand your situation, you could apply ED to Princeton, committing yourself to attend if admitted, but also apply to UMKC, and RD to other colleges. If you are deferred from Princeton, then you get until April to hear your results, and make decisions both about dedicated programs, and where to go. </p>

<p>I suspect you are not positive about medicine in KC, or you would not be considering Princeton. Your high school record suggests that you are likely to get medical school eligible grades and MCATs if you go to conventional college. Then, if you are still interested, you should be a good bet for medical school.</p>

8

<p>As a student who transferred out of UMKC's 6-Year Medical program, I believe I have some input. If you are sure you want to do medicine, and do not have any intellectual aspirations, and want to do it rather cheaply (Since you are considered in-state), UMKC is a good choice. Also, UMKC's program is like high school in a way, you're always around the same people ALL the time. You don't have time to think, you're always memorizing something about something for exams. As far as meeting new people is concerned, unless you join a frat, from which there are three to choose from, you don't meet anyone else unless you ask for for a non-med roommate. Most med kids join the same clubs. Also since it's a commuter campus, not many people turn out for club activities. I was in the Honors Program as well, and that doesn't amount to much but more work and not much stimulation intellectually, and you really don't need extra work when you are in medical school. If you are sure about medicine and with your stats I'm sure you can get into some other programs. UM Columbia has a program which my cousin is going to, She also got into UMKC but she's going to Mizzou full ride, and it's more laid back since it's eight years.</p>

<p>Note: I am out of state so I didn't have any friends remotely close around me, if that matters. I had some adjustment problems as anyone else does, but I just wasn't intellectually stimulated and I couldn't take any courses I wanted to. You're pretty locked in if you go to UMKC, you can't take a variety of courses if you want to, basically all science and often time doubling up on very tough subjects. UMKC has prestige, and then it doesn't. Our docent doctor last year was telling us that Harvard Med officials came out to see how the curriculum is structured. Then again, if you look at rankings, UMKC isn't that high. Most kids place at residencies at UMKC, they won't reject one of their own, but getting into top tier universities is tough for residency. The kid who scored the highest on the MCAT in the history of the school placed into the Mayo Clinic, and I met a sixth year at the hospital that got into Barnes in STL, but they are few and far between.</p>

<p>Like any school, you've got to know what you're getting into when applying and making a decision. My year it wasn't very hard to get in. I hear this past year was much tougher. I don't know what your pool will be like. Facilities at UMKC aren't much, and since you're in the program you don't have time for research unless you take a year off.</p>

<p>Being close to home helps a lot. I also transferred because I had health issues UMKC's student health couldn't accurately access. I have friends who lived near home and could go home on weekends whenever they're friends were back, or went to KU or MU a lot to visit friends. </p>

<p>It all matters what you want in an experience. In my opinion the docent program doesn't amount to much, and they make you take a lot of service learning classes that just waste your time. Then again I wasn't happy where I was and I paid a LOT of money for it, since I'm out of state. This also means I'm biased.</p>

<p>As in deciding for any college, you must know everything about the decision, must know what you want and how you want to get it, and must sacrifice certain things in order to get what you want. I wasn't prepared to sacrifice all that. Also, for me, KC wasn't much of a city, though the plaza is kinda nice.</p>

<p>That's a lot of information, I know, and I'm not sure what you're looking for, but that's my two cents. I know it's a lot of UMKc bashing perhaps, but I have my reasons for what I say. If you want more information, you can PM me, but I won't answer spam PMs.</p>

9

<p>Thanks for your replies...information is good :)</p>

<p>Afan, you are correct-at this point I'm not sure if I want to stay in Kansas City. I'm considering Princeton because from what I've heard it has the best social environment (read: less Ferrari-driving snobs) of any Ivy, and I really like its undergraduate focus as I doubt I'll be going farther than a bachelor's degree before medical school. Right now I'm about 99% sure that I want to be a doctor, but I'm not sure what I want to do with an MD, be it cardiology, surgery or even working in the pharmaceutical industry. </p>

<p>Bullseye, your perspective is one I'd really like to hear, as I am also worried that I'll end up hating the UMKC program (as you seem to have) and be miserable. I tried to send you a PM, but I was told that you aren't accepting PMs :(</p>

10

<p>Go over a little farther from UMKC, and you've got WashU in St.Louis :p</p>

11

<p>I'm applying to their Medical Scholars program :)</p>

12

<p>Just to let you know the Medical Scholars Program is very tough to get into. But yes, I just changed my options and now you can PM me.</p>

13

<p>There are a lot straight med programs out there. I applied to like four or five, and the only one I got into was UMKC. I turned out to be the worst decision of my life. It just didn't work out. I'm doing okay now and things are looking up, but I lost a lot last year. Anyways, you can PM me if you have any questions or email me at <a href="mailto:bullseye112001@yahoo.com">bullseye112001@yahoo.com</a></p>

14

<p>Thanks. PM sent. Anyone else have input?</p>