<p>Of the two 6 year bs/md programs, which one is better. To clarify, which program better prepares its students for medicine and lands its students in top residency programs. Honestly, i've never heard of either of these two schools, they don't seem so prestigious. But which one is better of the two?</p>
<p>i was thinking about the same thing last year when i was picking a school. ultimately i chose psu because of several factors, including the residency issue. the match list for jmc is pretty amazing for any school, not so much because jmc is rated high but because its such a old medical school that prepares kids very well. i was talking to someone who previously made it through the program, and he was saying that out of the 30 or so program kids, one of them is almost always #1 at jmc and most land good residencies (in his year, 4 went to cleveland clinic, 4 to upenn, 2 to mayo, a few to to ucla, and more). that was pretty impressive to me.</p>
<p>as for umkc, true you do get to do those docent rotations, but i don't think they help you as far as getting into a better residency. when i was looking at the match list, a large large number of umkc med school grads went to umkc for residency. of course, some also went to presitigous midwest residencies, but in my opinion no matter where u go you can get into a nice residency if u work hard. its just that jmc is a very traditional medical school that gives u good medical experience, especially since its in a big city area and is in conjunction with other hospitals (i.e. upenn hospital, jefferson medical, etc.) overall, i felt that i would end up happier at psu (football, laid back, parties, activities, course selection, priority etc.), it was cheaper (30 K total out of state vs. 55 K total out of state), 2nd summer was optional, lots of AP credit was accepted and u could travel abroad if u want to, and the medical school just seemed a whole lot better to me in most every aspect. that was basically the basis of my decision between the two 6 yr progs.</p>
<p>also, if u don't want to do 6 yrs, i thot that ucsd (if ur in ca) and rice/ baylor were two amazing programs that i turned down for psu. but if u really want a 6 yr program like i did, then i think that psu/ jmc is the way to go, and i guarantee once ur in u wont regret it at all.</p>
<p>yo amar you got into the ucsd med prog?? shiiiiit crazy</p>
<p>Exactly how does psu/jmc prep you for your career in medicine. Is it one of those programs where all you do for the first 2 years is fullful your undergrad requirements, b/c as you told me u knew, UMKC students start clinical training and experience from day 1. I figured that b/c of that, theyd be better prepared for a career in medicine. I'm guessin that you know what you're talking about though since you turned down UCSD and Rice/Baylor. Please help me out mann. This is a tough choice. Got any info on NEOUCOM?</p>
<p>ya, at psu u get to do 2 yrs in the undergrad and enjoy urself and do whatever u want while still finishing all ur reqs. at umkc u get to do those docent rotations, but after looking at what they do, honestly what's the point? what kind of real experience are u getting? its basically they force u to shadow doctors and volunteer in the hospitals and u won't gain much experience being just an undergrad because honestly, what could u do that's so important? its not like ur doing med school rotations, ur literally just following doctors, not even doing actual check- ups or procedures because who's gonna let an undergrad actually do one? this is what i got from the information they gave me at the interview. im not just saying this because this is the choice i made, but if i had to make a choice again, i'd say psu over umkc in any situation if u got into both. also, umkc is supposed to be hard and stressful because of the rotations and all the extra stuff that u have to do. that is the main reason why they accept so many kids and only end up with around 1/2 to 2/3 actually making it through. psu on the other hand is fun and laid back, another reason why almost all of the students give or take maybe 1 or 2 make it through every year.</p>
<p>wow amarpan...rice/baylor, ucsd, umkc, psu where else did u get in and wat were u'r stats?</p>
<p>nahh amar i totally disagree bro. my bros in umkc and he said docent rotations help like a mofo, hes alrdy acting like a doctor man. and another thing about umkc has over psu is that its no mcat req with a 2.8 gpa. but ofcourse psu is a good choice. but umkc over psu anyday... and you said something about parties n stuff at psu, but dude every school has parties, and after your 3 years in, the party scene will get old for sure. but hey they are both med progs ofcourse! good freakin oppurtunities..but umkc>>psu is what i think</p>
<p>just to clarify, after i got into psu, i turned down interviews for ucsd and rice baylor, that's what i meant by turn down, sorry for not clarifying. i didn't apply to a lot of other big ones, but i got into miami, vcu, lehigh, iit, and i turned down a lot of interviews like ohio state, temple, rpi, union, and tcnj. i cant remember everything but i got rejected from usc and northwestern. my stats are somewhere online.</p>
<p>its all opinion man, and ive heard it from different people. i know some people that hate it there and think that those rotations are a waste of time. i know some that like it a lot. but ive jsut heard more of the former. but i thing i know for sure is that despite no mcats and 2.8 gpa, umkc still has one of the highest fail rates if not the highest of any program. on top of that, the match list wasn't very impressive to me at all, especially if people in the program do get all that experience. i just felt at psu, even with the 3.5 gpa (which isnt really that high esp since - and + dont count for the program) and mcats, worked better for me aside from the location and activities, just because you could pick what u want to for ur 2 years, take any course u want, ap credit counts, and u just have to get a 27. true u have to take it still, but at least u don't have to come back to school in the summer doing rotations and taking classes. instead u can stay at home and enjoy ur summer and do mcats if u want. its just a lot more flexible, cheaper, better med school, better matches, and.....better football team, and there's no question about that one at least!</p>
<p>o btw, i didn't like neucom at all just because u have to go to all the summers after (3 i think) and the med school was on probation a few times also. it just seems shaky to me. umkc and psu are MUCH better options than neucom in my opinion.</p>
<p>actually from what ive heard the match is pretty impressive for umkc... yeah but ill tell you why the fail rate is "so high" for the program at umkc. 80 percent of their students are from missouri. it is an instate sponsered program, so 80 percent of what like 120 kids? thats alot of spots for missouri residents, which kind of brings 2nd tier kids. but the out of state pool is highly competitive... well yeah thats why. usually all those 2nd tier kids drop out and thats why 1 out of 3 kids at umkc fail out of the program. umkc also accepts ap credits just like psu. but yeah why stress over the mcats?? if you have guarenteed admission as long as you maintain a 2.8 why not? and your saying docent rotations are a waste of time.......dude your getting clinical experience. becoming a doctor aint all about book work bro</p>
<p>here's umkc's match list. i couldnt find jmc's but when u go to the interview ull see it. its not bad, but for me i saw way too much umkc med school and midwest schools. sure, they might have picked the school for various reasons, but i wouldve liked to see some better residencies just because thats the most important degree that a doctor has.</p>
<p>also, for the drop out rate, despite having those kids from local areas, i still know that a good number of out of state kids fail out by med school time. the reasons isnt so much as the school work, but i know from them that its because they have to do rotations in med school. for me, doing rotations while studying hours on end was the last thing. plus its not exactly a flexible schedule. that just didnt work for me. i would rather chose to get integrated into the hospital scenario and cocentrate on my book studies just because, honestly, without the book work where are u gonna get? this is the main reason why med schools mostly separate clinical rotations and book work, just because its so critical for one to get some things down before going on to others. its another thing if u can handle it chose to rather than being forced to.</p>
<p>also, if docent rotations help, then why don't u see many kids with stellar residencies? im not trying to bag on umkc's program...its amazing in my opinion. any 6 yr program is amazing, but i just felt that psu was for me cuz i wanted to get my basic sciences down, take other classes that i wanted to take for fun, and then get integrated into patient care and the like when i knew enough information. but once again, its all up to u and ur preference.</p>
<p>yeah i know you aint trying to bag or anything. but ill tell you something about these rotations. did you know harvard med came down and integrated a docent rotation program there. umkc has like different colors to distinguish between each docent unit. but harvard uses famous people it graduated from. dude you may not know this but top residency progs know about umkc and its early clinical experience. if it was a waste of time, why would the top med school in the country integrate this docent system in their curriculum.....hmm</p>
<p>yo i don't think doing rotations is a waste of time sicne every med school makes u do them eventually. theyre needed, i just had issues with:</p>
<p>a. doing them too early on without having a background from studying the specifics</p>
<p>b. doing them while studying in your first two years of med school</p>
<p>the whole theory behind having early experience is nice, but i just dont think its really needed when u have other things to worry about, which is why kids fail out. once again, its all preference. also, at the interview i also heard about top residencies wanting umkc kids, but if this is the case, then why don't they get to these residencies consistently? when deciding between the two, i just felt that having a consistenly strong match list boded better for me in the future.</p>
<p>moreover, if ur cutting down ur college stay already by 2 yrs, then y wouldnt u want to enjoy it like an undergrad? i would much rather not have to worry about doing rotations and relax before med school in 2 yrs than have to have 6 yrs of non stop work. in the end, ur still gonna be a doctor, i really didn't think that mandatory rotations for so many hrs/ week were gonna make me any better of a doctor if i was gonna have to do them in med school anyways. i didnt find the need to have to sacrifice a better undergrad insitution and a better med school with more opportunities for doing rotations 2 yrs early.</p>
<p>but having said all this, if i didn't get into psu, then i would have still had the same hard time deciding whether or not to go to the ucsd and rice baylor interviews since a 6 yr program in my books was still better than an 8 yr program.</p>
<p>hey, just wanted to drop a little message here in case this thread has frightened away any potential UMKC-ers! as a first year student, the docent program is actually one of the things I like most about UMKC. unlike most med schools which would rather have you do your "book work" for several years beforehand, this gives us a taste of medicine every week. when you're bogged down by tests and studying, it's nice to put on your white coat and remember why you came here. besides, you learn a ton... i have scrubbed in to watch surgeries (gastric bypass was so cool), held newborn babies in the nursery, interviewed and taken patient histories from patients... if anything, UMKC graduates are known for the great beside manner they have from six years of experience.</p>
<p>and just because not everybody goes to a prestigious residency doesn't mean it's impossible. it just depends on what your goals are. some people are more focused on settling down and having a family after six years of this than they are on having a top-notch residency. and on the flipside, we have people going to mayo, stanford, etc. practically every year too.</p>
<p>Their graduation rate is 81%</p>
<p>Yea..so i guess UMKC kids get a lot of primary care training. But what if you dont care 2 bits about primary care. I'm interested in pathology and lab medicine. So i would benefit more from doing bookwork on pathophysiology vs holding babies and taking patient histories...am i right?</p>
<p>you are right. UMKC's med program is very clinically oriented. however, you're going to have to do rotations either way, and getting experience early on with people just gives you that much of an advantage (if that's what you're interested in). for you specifically, however, i'd say you made the right choice in not coming here. again.. different things for different people, but an MD is an MD wherever you go. ultimately, though, i'm going into medicine for the sake of the people, not the science, so this was probably the best option for me.</p>
<p>Would UMKC be right for me if I wanted to specalize in neurology? Or is it better to do the program only if you want to be like a primary care/ family physician? I want to go to this program but I got into University of Chicago... and so now I don't know anymore. Help?</p>
<p>you can do anything you want at umkc... this year someone matched at mayo for rad/onc and someone else matched at johns hopkins for plastic surgery. its up to you, no mcats, no application fees, and 6 years instead of 8.</p>
@villageidiot Where did you end up going ? UMKC or University of Chicago? How did you decide? Any thoughts looking back ? Thanks…