<p>This is a link to a thread I started in the Parent's Forum. Didn't get the response I hoped for from the HYS parents, but the info/opinions on Princeton from a two-time parent and alumna might be helpful for all you brilliant kids looking for the right university.</p>
<p>I'm bumping this up because I think it's really good.:).</p>
<p>If I say so myself.</p>
<p>Alumother, thank you SO much for posting this over here. I think it's incredibly helpful. :D</p>
<p>You are welcome. And very polite too which is a great characteristic in a college applicant:).</p>
<p>As a parent of a P student, I concur with many of the things Alumother talks about. Yes, the campus is beautiful, the faculty is full of rock stars and they do spend a lot of money on the student body (It is an incredible value even if you are paying full boat). I don't know how H and Y compare but P has some very specific shortfalls. First, while the faculty may be on CNN or be widely considered world class experts it is not unusual to hear of a 300 History course (junior level) with 175 kids in the class. The superstar is in and out 30 seconds before and after the lecture. Yes, they may have a smaller session with a graduate student (or if you are lucky an untenured faculty member) but c'mon a state school 30+ years ago had more faculty/student interaction. In sum, I think the humanity of a LAC has something that P lacks. The faculty and administration should be ashamed. Finally, I think they do a crappy job developing scientists and engineers. Yes, I know science and engineering universally have high attrition rates but P's seems abnormally bad. I think their Integrated Science program if it were a consumer product would be recalled with its astounding dropout rates that are not disclosed. It seems more important to the faculty to have an average score of 50 on a 100 point test (humiliate the student body as part of the grade deflation project I assume) than develop a group of people who have worked the butt off for 18 years and are top 1% SAT talent (huge intellectual potential). P must hold a record turning budding scientists into Art History or Politics majors and frankly the world has a tremendous need in the technology area. Again, shame on the administration and faculty for not addressing this issue. Three digit class sizes in third year science courses are not acceptable. Yes, I would send my kid to P if I had it to do all over again but I would caution Buyer Beware. PS my kid is a science major still sticking it out so it is not sour grapes I preach. The kids (mine included) are happy beyond belief. As the title of thread says it is a parent's perspective.</p>
<p>Hmm. My D is Psych+Neuroscience and hasn't had this experience, not the 50 points on a test, not the 175 kids in a class junior year, not the lack of interaction with professors, not the turning into a humanities major.</p>
<p>I am not a fan of Princeton University for a variety of reasons. Of the current students at Princeton that I know well--5 in total--two were less than ethical in securing their admission. Two are wonderful people, but unhappy at Princeton. The fifth , like the first two, is convinced of her superiority. I also know well a few graduates. Both with whom I still have contact are total jerks. One was one of my father's attorneys who attended Princeton to play football & when he meets new clients he carries a copy of the Princeton alumni journal with him & places it on the desk or table at the beginning of the interview. The classes at Princeton are not as small & intimate as one might think.
Over a few decades I have dealt with Harvard, Yale & Princeton and cannot write enough good things about Harvard & Yale, but am at a loss when it comes to the other school.</p>
<p>Coldwin...I respect your opinion but in no way did I want to imply that the kids of P are anything but the finest young people you could imagine. I have met dozens and they are bright, personable and interesting. Clearly, a huge plus for anyone considering the school is the phenomeonal cohesion of the campus and overall character/diversity/intellectual curiosity of the student body.</p>
<p>I'm a bit at a loss about ColdWind's post.
The student bodies at Harvard, Yale and Princeton are about as similar as could be. Why wouldn't they be?
If I were forced to tweak out differences, it would be that the attention to undergraduates and contact with professors is higher at Princeton than at the other two (my daughter's best friend goes to Yale). A fairly unalloyed benefit to Princeton there.
The other difference is the weight given to social interactions at Princeton. Much higher than at the other two. On the one hand, Princeton students come out less awkward socially and able to relate to others with more ease. The downside is some of the smartest people in the country obsessing about minute social differences and status. An utter waste there, IMO.
I would say that the access to professors has astonished me.</p>
<p>wsox- as a graduate of the integrated science program I have to strongly disagree- it has been invaluable to me in my pursuits after princeton and definitely prepared me incredibly well and gave me the support of countless faculty members. The goal of the program is to encourage students into science with their eyes open, and to prepare incredibly qualified future graduate students. I learned a lot of lessons my freshman year that my peers are just learning now (as first year graduate students)</p>
<p>Hmmm.... I'm not going to comment on Coldwind's post, except to say that there are good and bad apples at every school, and Princeton is no exception. </p>
<p>As to class size... I do think that at times, Princeton wants to market itself as if it is an LAC style Ivy, and that isn't the case. If you are in even a 300 level humanities class, it is going to be a big lecture, and while you have a precept, which is small discussion group, the chances are that the preceptor will be a grad student (not to say this means they are bad - it just isn't a professor). However, I think every Princeton student winds up with ample opportunity to take small classes. Nearly everyone takes at least one freshman seminar, which is usually capped at 12 students. Everyone has to take a writing seminar. Most, if not all departments require a junior seminar. You will have one or two junior paper advisors, depending on department, and a thesis advisor. </p>
<p>Those are just the small courses you are guaranteed as part of Princeton's minimal requirements. As a major, you will almost certainly be required to take 400 level seminars, which will have no more than 20 students, and sometimes far fewer. Even if it isn't a requirement, most students take a number of these seminars in their junior and senior years just because they are such fascinating courses - 300 level are usually survey courses designed for (although not populated exclusively by) majors (as opposed to 100 and 200 level courses, which are intro courses intended for anyone). 400 level courses deal with more specific areas within a topic, so a student is bound to take a number.</p>
<p>I'll admit, there are times when I've been annoyed when I've been in several large courses and happened not to get a single professor as a preceptor. This semester, however (senior year), I had a history class with seven students and two professors, and two English classes with 12-15 students. One of my classes next semester will probably be a pretty large history lecture, but again, both my English courses will be 400 level seminars. All in all, I've had plenty of opportunity to get to work closely with faculty, and I think most students would say the same.</p>
<p>I've also found professors to be quite accessible outside of class - even if a professor isn't your preceptor, it is rarely a hassle to get a meeting.</p>
<p>Nice to see you around again, Alumother!</p>
<p>I'm a freshman, and this semester I chose to take all seminar-style classes. If you don't want to take large lectures, there is a great amount of seminars to take. I'm more of a social science/humanities person though. I'm not so sure about the sciences. I have gotten to know my freshman seminar professor very well this semester. It was great being able to learn from such a leading figure in his field. Professors are definitely accessible outside of class. This was true with all of my classes except one this semester. The professor seemed very busy before and after class...</p>
<p>From a parent’s perspective, I have been thrilled with the education my son, a senior, has received at Princeton. When my son was accepted, I had three concerns: would he be academically up to the task; would he be able to fit in socially; and would a Princeton education be no better than what he could receive in an honors program at a state university at a much lower cost? (In other words, would I be paying for something beyond the Princeton “brand”?) All of these fears turned out to be unfounded.
I have encountered a few undisputedly brilliant students on campus. However, I observe that most of the students admitted to Princeton are not orders of magnitude brighter than the top students at a typical selective urban high school or a strong suburban or private school. Some of the admitted students are gifted in a particular area, such as math or computer science, but are otherwise not significantly different than their peers. And there are some students, mostly recruited athletes and development cases, who are not academic stars. What tends to distinguish many students admitted to Princeton from other top students is that Princeton students often excel not only in academics but also in something else. So not only do they have 1550 SAT scores but they also have black belts in Judo, are fluent in four languages, or have performed with the New York City Ballet. Overall, the level of intellectualism of the student body is very high, and students learn a tremendous amount from each other.
With thousands of students to choose from, Princeton rarely makes a mistake and admits students who are so academically challenged that they can’t meet the requirements for graduation. In addition, while many students are very gifted academically, they choose to devote much of their energy to social or extracurricular activities, which tends to level the playing field with students who may not be as gifted but are willing to work harder academically. By the time they graduate, a very large group of students cluster around a very small GPA range. Although the weakest part of my son’s application was his high school grades, he has applied himself diligently to his studies and done extremely well, even while assuming leadership positions in several extracurricular areas of great interest to him. So parents, if your child is admitted, don’t worry that he or she can’t do the work. He or she will do just fine.
Socially, my son reports that there are all kinds of cliques and hierarchies on campus but there is also a niche for almost everyone. If your world revolves around being in the “right” bicker club or being the leader of the “right” campus group or having the “right” summer internship and you don’t get that in which you invested so much of your psychic energy, you may be bitterly disappointed. However, most students seem extremely resilient, and many don’t choose to define themselves in these ways. I believe that vast majority of students, no matter their background, come to feel very comfortable at Princeton and overall enjoy their time there.
Academically, my son has told me that not every course has been interesting and not every professor or preceptor has been a star, but most classes have been worthwhile, and some professors are world class. For example in my son’s first semester freshmen year, one of the professors, who was also my son’s preceptor, won a prestigious national award and the work that another professor was doing with my son’s class was featured in a national magazine. Accessibility to professors has not been an issue, and my son has found that if he makes the effort, professors will make the time to speak with him. The JP and senior thesis also give opportunities for lots of interaction with professors. The university staff are extremely helpful – my son has had some great experiences with the librarians – and the alumni network has been of invaluable assistance in terms of thesis research and job placement. Without getting into specifics, I will only say my son has had extracurricular and academically related opportunities that few other universities would have been able to offer.
As many have also pointed out, the campus is among the most beautiful, and despite an occasional glitch, the school is very well administered.
When my so was in high school, I used to joke with him that if he could figure out a way to be an admitted to an Ivy League school, I would figure out a way to pay for it. I have never in his time at Princeton regretted making that commitment to him.</p>
<p>Princeton has many great things, but there is one particular minor problem doesn't work well for my freshman daughter, so, as a parent I really hate it: Princeton's academic calendar with winter finals AFTER the winter holidays. It doesn't let student neither fully relax and enjoy their holiday time-off with their families, nor to mobillize fully and do their best in academics (while everybody else is on vacation!) :( </p>
<p>Something should be done about it. ;)</p>
<p>^
Next year the calendar will be changed. Exams will be BEFORE winter holidays. :)</p>
<p>^Nice! With some luck... maybe I'll be able to enjoy the benefits of that.</p>
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<p>Next year the calendar will be changed. Exams will be BEFORE winter holidays</p>
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<p>That would be nice! But how do you know? ;)</p>
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Next year the calendar will be changed. Exams will be BEFORE winter holidays
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<p>I think you're mistaken. According to this: <a href="http://registrar.princeton.edu/academic-calendar/acad3f.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://registrar.princeton.edu/academic-calendar/acad3f.pdf</a> , it'll be the same schedule. Was a change announced and no update on that page?</p>
<p>I believe Harvard changes next year, leaving Princeton the only Ivy with January exams.</p>
<p>^ I had heard from a few friends that the calendar was going to change after this academic year. I don't have any sources though...</p>
<p>Exams in late January ruins my christmas and new years.</p>