<p>I graduated from Princeton 3 years ago, and am willing to answer some questions (if anyone has any) about it. I'm not expert of course on minute details and such, but my experiences might offer you some insight. Questions?</p>
<p>Is it really that hard to get in? Like do you have to have like perfect grades and great EC's? </p>
<p>Also how are the people in Princeton? Are they all from the high class or is it diverse with middle-class people also? </p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>If you had to change one thing about Princeton, what would that be? just curious...</p>
<p>I'm kinda curious how you've found the post-Princeton job market. Does the much-ballyhooed Princeton Name help, or does it not make much difference? I'm sure this varies by field and by geographic area, but even so.</p>
<p>what was your major and what ECs did u do on campus (just so we can have some more direction for our questions)</p>
<p>yes tell us bit more about you</p>
<p>What was the best thing about Princeton, and the worst thing about Princeton? How are the professors? How's the food? What was your major? Could you do original research as an undergrad?</p>
<p>And anything else you might care to add...</p>
<p>Tell about the "eating clubs"...they sound alittle snobbish and "elitist" to me but I would be really interested in a first hand account of them.</p>
<p>alright I will try to go through these all.</p>
<p>"Is it really that hard to get in? Like do you have to have like perfect grades and great EC's?"</p>
<p>I don't really want to get into stats, etc. but of course it is hard to get into! It is Princeton! But you don't need to have perfect 1600 (or I guess 2400 now). Just BE YOURSELF on your application. they spot cheaters/liars/people who exaggerate very easily so DON'T DO IT. That would be my advice on that. however, note that academics are not there only admission criteria, and in fact sometimes it is a very minor part in the process. they have gotten criticized for not caring enough about academics, and picking up legacies/athletes, etc. so just be aware of that. check out this article for more information: <a href="http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2003/01/08/news/6689.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2003/01/08/news/6689.shtml</a></p>
<p>"Also how are the people in Princeton? Are they all from the high class or is it diverse with middle-class people also? "</p>
<p>Good question. Of course there are people of all different types and places and classes. one thing I was disappointed in is that i felt people didn't try and assimilate meaning that one racial group would be just friends with itself, and another with just itself, etc. this is a generalization of course, and there are (a good deal of) exceptions, but i experienced that people befriended other people who were similar in terms of class and race, and to a lesser extent place (i.e. some of the northeasterners stuck together alot) and there wasn't much interaction beside that. </p>
<p>"If you had to change one thing about Princeton, what would that be?"</p>
<p>another good question. to be honest, i didn't enjoy my time at Princeton that much. I didn't hate it, but I never, for example, looked forward to going back to Princeton during the summers. I think that would be because of a lot of smaller things than one big thing. Some people did enjoy it, a few did hate it, and most were somewhere in between. to me, had i to do it over again, i probably won't have picked princeton. that isn't to say it was a waste. Not at all! I met great friends and had some great times. But to me, the school never really clicked, and had I to do it over again, I would have looked at the other schools that accepted me alot more closely. they were generally equal in terms of status/prestige but I picked Princeton because I thought it had the best undergrad focus. (If you're wondering, accepted at Stanford, Columbia, Amherst, Williams, Princeton). If I HAD to answer your question then, and put my finger on one thing, I did feel a bit let down by the whole undergrad deal. You do met and are taught by professors, by the precept system makes it such that you get taught alot by grad students. I'm definitely not the only one who feels this way. I don't know how to link, but this <a href="http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2001/03/16/opinion/2683.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2001/03/16/opinion/2683.shtml</a> article articulates my thoughts better than I could explain them to you.
What it says for me: "Prospective professors who lack teaching ability tend to be weeded out before they actually get the chance to run a course. To become a preceptor, meanwhile, it is relatively easy: you simply have to be a graduate student...By allowing grad-student preceptors to evaluate undergraduate work, Princeton undermines both the consistency and the quality of its grading system." and more to the heart of it: "Princeton's preceptors are given so much responsibility that they often have more influence over the quality of their courses than the professors themselves."</p>
<p>So, in short, that would be the major flaw if I had to pick, and if I had to do the process over again, I would have looked a lot more at Williams/Amherst for having no grad students on campus, but that isn't to say i would have disregarded considering my other options. for example, I think the other 2 options i had, stanford and columbia, have strong points as well, including more assimilation between cultures i believe. so I would have reviewed it ALL carefully again.</p>
<p>Whoo...I'm getting a bit tired so I'll be back and answer the rest (and more?) later on.</p>
<p>edit: fixed a typo</p>
<p>I'll take the eating clubs question, but feel free to add, OP!</p>
<p>First of all, the eating clubs are two things at once: small upperclass dining halls, and social organizations. Many people liken them to the Greek system, but they "feel" very different because they are coed and have a purpose beyond just providing nightlife. They are pretty mainstream at Princeton, which cuts down on the extent to which they <em>can</em> be snobbish and elitist. The vast majority of the student body parties at the clubs, whether they are club members or not -- while clubs do have members-only events, on any given night there will be a handful (probably at least half) of the clubs open to all students. Since you don't join until your junior year, you'll be a non-member guest at these clubs for half your time at Princeton; it's not a big deal.</p>
<p>There are two types of eating clubs: bicker and sign-in. The former choose their members in a rush-like process called bicker. The latter are sign-in, which are non-selective -- first-come, first-served, and by lottery if the club fills. The bicker clubs are more prestigious, but many choose a sign-in club as their first choice. It's not like there is a stigma attached to the sign-ins or anything. (I'm in one and love it. Wouldn't have bickered for the world. Didn't need to.) Each club has its own personality, but the clubs -- sign-in and bicker alike -- still operate as a somewhat unified system governed by the Interclub Council.</p>
<p>My experience is that snobbish and elitist would be a gross exaggeration. If you've heard that, you've probably not heard that from a person who knows the clubs well, but rather the uninformed making assumptions, independents who didn't know much about the clubs in the first place trying to justify their decision not to join, or the occasional bitter hosee (rejected or "hosed" during bicker). If you're really trying to pick its faults, you might find a little elitism in the selectivity of the bicker system or the cost of membership. But having a trust fund is not required for membership; your conversation skills and wit will get you farther. The clubs are more expensive than the meal plans, because they offer better food, use of the house, social events, and can't take advantage of economies of scale... but the university financial aid allowance for board can at least be applied.</p>
<p>Good analysis on eating clubs. I feel pretty much the same way.</p>
<p>Alright, I have some free time for a question or two...</p>
<p>"I'm kinda curious how you've found the post-Princeton job market. Does the much-ballyhooed Princeton Name help, or does it not make much difference? I'm sure this varies by field and by geographic area, but even so."</p>
<p>I'm sure the Princeton name does help, but the field I went into it didn't really. Not to say if there is a Princeton grad vs. say, a Notre Dame grad, they will pick the Princeton grad immediately. I think employers view college enough, but if the college is selective enough, then all of the colleges at the top are pretty much viewed equally. So if you are think about say NYU vs. Princeton, DON'T base it just on the future job market, because both will give you about the same opportunities. If you are choosing between University of Vermont vs. Princeton, then you might want to consider the job market. For me personally, I ended up working at a company my father had worked at for many years, so I would have gotten that job almost no matter what school I went to. </p>
<p>gotta run...more later</p>
<p>What did you major in?</p>
<p>what are the personalities of each of the eating clubs (or post a link if there is one)</p>
<p>I'll keep handling the eating club part of this thread, I guess :-)</p>
<p>I hesitate to discuss the personalities of the clubs because they definitely vary through time, and tend to be reduced to stereotypes. I mean, compare what Fitzgerald's character Amory Blaine had to say:</p>
<p>"The upper-class clubs, concerning which he had pumped a reluctant graduate during the previous summer, excited his curiosity: Ivy, detached and breathlessly aristocratic; Cottage, an impressive melange of brilliant adventurers and well-dressed philanderers; Tiger Inn, broad-shouldered and athletic, vitalized by an honest elaboration of prep-school standards; Cap and Gown flamboyant Colonial; Literary Quadrangle, and the dozen others, varying in age and positions."</p>
<p>...with the Princeton Spectator's somewhat satirical assessment:
<a href="http://www.princetonspectator.com/media/paper192/news/2002/09/16/Princeton/A.Sober.Look.At.The.Street-284600.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.princetonspectator.com/media/paper192/news/2002/09/16/Princeton/A.Sober.Look.At.The.Street-284600.shtml</a></p>
<p>Given that these sorts of things only tend to reinforce what was sometimes never true in the first place, and always exaggerate for effect... I'm nervous about publishing my assessment, because it's totally subjective, and totally capable of opening cans of worms. This is just my assessment, so for God's sake don't go getting your heart set on a club or deciding you hate them all just because of it. You aren't at Princeton yet, and you've got a good year and a half to figure these things out for yourself.</p>
<p>Bicker clubs tend to have stronger personalities, because the selection process helps them maintain their identities. Sign-ins are more easygoing and more mainstream.</p>
<p>Ivy and Cottage (B). The most elite by reputation and age, not like it <em>really</em> matters. Ivy seems to be more interested in building a membership of brilliant but quirky people -- great conversationalists and travelers. It's different because of its seated dinners, rather than buffet-style. Cottage fits more of the the prep-school stereotypes, beautiful people, polo shirts and frisbee on the manicured back lawn, general hard-to-get-in as a freshman male, etc.</p>
<p>Tower (B). Probably the most popular bicker club at the moment, with a distinctly toolish nature. I'm not exactly sure how to explain the slang term "tool"... it's somewhere between Future Policy Wonk of America (Woody Woo student) and Brooks's Organization Kid. Still, its current popularity indicates that it's pretty mainstream, often the club that people bicker just to have bickered, when they'd be perfectly happy joining a sign-in.</p>
<p>TI (B). Tiger Inn, which is never called by its full name. In the absence of recognized fraternities, it's become one by character. Think Animal House. Known for wild and legendary parties. Open later than anybody else and on more evenings, encourages debauchery of all kinds.</p>
<p>Cap (B). For some reason I know nothing about Cap, except that its female:male ratio has been extremely high of late.</p>
<p>Charter (S). Furthest from campus, but nearest the Engineering Quad -- result is a lot of engineers joining. Since Princeton engineers aren't nearly as geeky as engineers elsewhere, though, this isn't a reason to be scared away if you're not one. Relatively conservative. Charter is reputed to have the best food on the street, and one of the nicest computer clusters.</p>
<p>Terrace (S). The arty, theatrical, alternative club. Easygoing and laid-back, completely unpretentious, usually responsible for some of the more unique events on the street. The club for "non-club" people.</p>
<p>Colonial (S). Resurrected from the near-dead a few years ago, Colonial now is ridiculously popular but unfortunately somewhat generic. Always a full dance floor, but always the same full dance floor. Beautiful, huge building in a good location though -- I especially envy their lovely front porch.</p>
<p>Quad (S). Really mainstream like Colonial, but maybe a little geekier; they've got an arcade in the basement. Gets a ridiculous amount of Alcohol Initiative money to bring in bands, etc., because of its central location.</p>
<p>Cloister (S). "Floaters and boaters," and not surprisingly the only club with a hot tub. I don't know it well.</p>
<p>yeah and prospective students should know that minorities generally dont bicker clubs. Life is very different between minorities and whites when it comes to the street.</p>
<p>If youre a minority, you should check out the atmosphere closely yourself by going to your respective cultural group's websites in the pton website directory. Contact many of the students and ask them the questions to get a firsthand view.</p>
<p>I see Cap & Gown as the "nice jocks" club. I ate there earlier this year and was surrounded by enthusiastic sports people. One girl was like "look--my team is in Sports Illustrated; here's my butt!" and another was talking about how she played three varsity sports in high school. Pretty nice people, big new tap room, but the food wasn't even as good as the food in my high school.</p>
<p>Ah yes, the grad student preceptors. It's not so bad in maths and sciences, but they grade papers in English courses too. So in a course with 30 people, the professor would lecture and take one precept, while the preceptor takes the other 2 precepts and is responsible for the grades of 20 people. In those cases, the professor has no input on your grade since everything is graded by the preceptor. Sure, you could talk to your professor or even (maybe) show him your paper, but I don't see how he could have any input, given the way things are set up.</p>
<p>Oh, and I at least am quite looking forward to being back on campus, though that could just be because this town is so dull.</p>
<p>That's disappointing...so this whole under-grad focus thing isn't really true?</p>
<p>Well, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion, or move in that direction at all. Every course still must have a professor who does all the lectures and takes one or two precepts. But if you have more people than the professor can handle, then the rest are at the mercy of the preceptor. Hence the only piece of advice you'll ever need on choosing precepts: get into your professor's precept if at all possible. Sometimes they'll just ask when you can't make a precept, and separate everyone then, but professors generally tell you which one's their precept if you ask.</p>
<p>When I was there I only had preceptors for v. large intro humanities lecture courses. And the professor would sometimes teach a couple of preceptorials for each lecture. Then any class I took that wasn't a big lecture course usually had only 20 people or less so there was no need for preceptors - or even if there were 2 preceptorials then professor taught both as I remember. Also many seminars were v. small especially as an upperclassman. Has this changed?</p>