What do you dislike about Princeton?

<p>I know that Princeton is an amazing institution and right at the top--- but I'm not sure if I want to apply there. Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to visit and I'm a little bummed about that right now. But if any of you could offer insight, that would be much appreciated. What are the people like, are they social? Does Princeton live up to its "WASP-y" reputation? Good food?? Whatever you have...let me know!</p>

<p>I'm not a student, but from what I hear the grade-deflation system can be a pain at times. On the whole, it really is an amazing place.</p>

<p>I live two right turns and 30 minutes away from Princeton, and as far as location goes, it's one of the best places. It's in Central Jersey, but you can hop on the shuttle train, go to Princeton Junction, and take the express train to NYC. That's great. The food is good. Very good for cafeteria food like in the Chancellor's Green Cafe. And trust, me if a college doesn't have good grub, I ain't going there.</p>

<p>grade deflation is pretty tough. also, it's competitive to get into princeton, but once you get in, things continue to be exclusive/competitive. eating clubs and bicker makes things a bit exclusive. applying to woody woo makes things exclusive too. I guess I'm saying that once you're in Princeton you're still competing to be a part of certain things. that said, the school is so beautiful and has so much to offer that a little competition might not hurt. </p>

<p>i would say that the "waspy" culture exists--some of the eating clubs like ivy and tiger inn have a rep for attracting these types, though from my experience, I am not sure if those clubs are so "waspy"--but the school has become so diverse over the years, that there is not necessarily one dominant culture. other than that people are intense, focused, and brilliant, and in general, a bit on the preppy side.</p>

<p>Thanks bigman. I appreciate your honest answer and it has really helped in making my decision.</p>

<p>sorry for my ignorance but what are the "eating clubs?"</p>

<p>They're big old mansions on Prospect Street ("The Street") where upperclassmen eat, drink, and be merry. They also have concerts and lawnparties and formals there. Students rarely live there though (sometimes the prez and VP and people will though).</p>

<p>Off the top of my head the names are:</p>

<p>Tiger Inn
Ivy
Cottage
Charter
Cap and Gown
Terrace
Tower
Cloister
and a couple others I can't remember...</p>

<p>Some you have to apply/rush "bicker" for, others are "sign in" clubs that are basically a lottery. </p>

<p>To get into parties, you always need your prox -- Princeton ID card (unless they didn't hire bouncers...like Terrace and Cloister) and sometimes need a pass, a signed little mini index card type thingy that says you're invited by one of the members.</p>

<p>Basically, unless its the night of winter formals, you can get into about half of the clubs with just your PUID.</p>

<p>I'm a current freshman, and have been a little disappointed with some things thus far.
1) What comprises the majority of the social life. It seems that everyone (maybe this is particularly freshmen) just want to drink themselves into a stupor to "destress." I drink a little, but don't derive that much pleasure from it. Going to the Street is starting to become repetitive and boring, not to mention especially cold atm. I know this will raise the arguments that there's plenty to do besides drink, blahblah... but all my friends want to go out all the time so this is my personal experience. Plus, even if you don't go out, I get woken up at 2,4,6,8, all even hours :P of the night from drunken accidents and entrances into the building. Also, so many activities and clubs (extracurricular, not eating) have initiations that are alcohol based it's not funny.
2) I feel like there's a lot of segregation among economic classes/ethnicities, or perhaps just way more so than my high school so it shocked me. There's also some racism, which of course there is everywhere, but I never expected it to be among such intelligent peers. I've personally been the target of 3 Asian insults that weren't even jokes, but serious comments. It doesn't really bother me, but I'm amazed that in this time and especially this place this would even happen.
3) The school year is too short! I know people exalt the many breaks that we get, but I'm paying a lot for school, and I'd probably be happier if we had more time to learn the material that we do know. In physics, I think a week or two extra would have eased things up near the end a lot.</p>

<p>Info as a mom of a junior daughter. She has felt zero impact from grade deflation. On the other hand I am not pressuring her to get any grades in particular since this is college and it's her life. She reports absolutely zero competition etc. Alcohol, however, yes. Princeton is a drinking campus. It's not all there is to do but it certainly does play a role. The clubs ARE NOT exclusive in fact, but people do drink.</p>

<p>Of course, so do they drink at Penn and Dartmouth and Cornell and Yale. I hear Harvard not so much, Brown other substances enter the picture, and Columbia NYC is the social life so they don't have the college kids all drinking together phenomenon.</p>

<p>I am disturbed however IAmNobody that you feel there is segregation and racism. My daughter's in a multi-racial dance group and reports no such thing, but, of course, that's just one data point. </p>

<p>Are you involved in any activities beyond schoolwork? Just suggesting that it's possible that what you experience as segregation would disappear if you got involved in for example Theater Intime, a dance group, Whig/Clio, The Daily Princetonian etc.</p>

<p>I was rejected for a few of the activities I applied to, but am in a club sport, a religious organization and maybe 2 more clubs. In those activities, people have been nothing but nice, and my roomate is very sweet too. The places I felt uncomfortable/had comments made to me were on the Street and just outside, walking back from somewhere at night. I don't really wish to detail them here, but you can PM me and ask. But like you said, I'm also just one data point. It's possible someone could go through the entire 4 years without this kind of feeling.</p>

<p>
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unless they didn't hire bouncers...like Terrace and Cloister

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<p>Cloister and Terrace have bouncers.</p>

<p>Yeah, true, but the bouncers (especially at Terrace) really don't seem to much care who gets in. ;)</p>

<p>Anyways, my take:</p>

<p>The eating clubs are not nearly as exclusive as people seem to think. Yes, they're clubs. Yes, not all of them have open membership. But on any given night I can generally get a pass or get into any given club. It's not tough. Generally, I think the exclusivity aspect is overblown.</p>

<p>People do drink a lot. Princeton is, as Alumother said, a drinking campus. Personally, I like that. If you're teetotalling, you probably won't. Mileage varies per person, obviously.</p>

<p>Other than that, I feel like you get out what you take in. I have yet to experience open racism or classism of any kind. I'm going to state my opinion here (and feel free to disregard it if you wish, people who think it might apply to you) but I have met a couple of people who say they have encountered such things, and they have always been people who almost seem to be looking to take offense to something. The chip on the shoulder complex won't get you far.</p>

<p>As for the preppy stereotype: it's more or less just a funny dress code. The prepiness doesn't show much about socioeconomic status (I know preppy kids on financial aid, and lots of rich people who dress like crap). On lawn parties, everyone gets all preppy, but the whole thing isn't about "look at us, we're rich" so much as it is about a kind of self-deprecating amusement at the whole preppy stereotype.</p>

<p>So far I've really enjoyed Princeton. Grade deflation is the one thing that does kind of shaft us though. But that's life.</p>

<p>I actually can imagine late at night on the Street drunk people making annoying and sem-racist comments, egging eachother on. I can imagine they make sexist comments, and personal comments, and all around insults. My apologies.</p>

<p>But I do not believe that Princeton is a racist environment at all. And it is not predominantly rich and elitist. It is more clean cut than, say, Columbia.</p>

<p>Haha yeah...the Terrace and Cloister bouncers were reeeally drunk when I was there... The TI ones were strict though. Maybe just my experience?</p>

<p>Since people were discussing eating clubs, there are 10. The five selective ("bicker") ones are: Cap and Gown, Cottage, Ivy, Tiger Inn, and Tower. The five non-selective ones ("sign in") are: Charter, Cloister, Colonial, Quad, and Terrace.</p>

<p>On most weekends, you can get into the sign-ins with just your Princeton ID, and it's pretty easy to get a pass into any of the bicker clubs if you really want to. There's some sort of stereotype attached with each of the clubs, and I went through the majority of freshman year believing them, but after spending sophomore year so far looking at each club one by one, I think I've decided that most of the stereotypes break down or are fairly limited in truth. The clubs are far more alike than different.</p>

<p>
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People do drink a lot. Princeton is, as Alumother said, a drinking campus. Personally, I like that. If you're teetotalling, you probably won't.

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<p>Yes and no...</p>

<p>I'd say the most visible social scene is the Street, definitely, and a big part of that has to do with the fact that it's simply one big, centralized chunk of road where people come and party. So if you do drink, that's an immediate option open to you (and I'd say, probably much safer than the drinking environment at most colleges).</p>

<p>If that's not quite your thing, you don't have a big centralized place where everyone who doesn't drink comes together, which is why I think there's a feeling that "Princeton is a drinking campus". If you're willing to be slightly creative and look, though, I'd say you have a good number of options open: Murray Dodge, Cafe Viv, various clubs, etc. Put another way, there's nothing as immediately accessible to the non-drinker as the Street is to the drinker, but that's far from saying that there are no easy options available at all.</p>

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Other than that, I feel like you get out what you take in. I have yet to experience open racism or classism of any kind.

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<p>Ditto.</p>

<p>Frankly, when I think about it, the times when I've liked Princeton the least are when it seems like the amount of work I'm expected to do (school work, activity work, job work, etc.) and the amount of time and mental energy I'm supposed to devote to each thing are simply too taxing for my health and mental sanity. To a degree, you control how intense your Princeton experience is, but one way or another, you'll find that there will be times where you will be pushed very, very hard, and if you're not willing to have that kind of stress at times, this may not be the place for you.</p>

<p>That said, the intensity is also something I like. It's the result of having motivated peers and high standards. You'll be amazed in your classes sometimes when people will hear some fairly complex idea or concept, chew it up, and spit out challenges to the professor within a minute or two. And outside of classes, these same people put together some fairly amazing publications, plays, conferences, and more. So I've come to accept that if I'm going to learn from some of these people, I better get used to some of the craziness that comes with it.</p>

<p>IAmNobody: I am sorry that you are disappointed, and I understand where you're coming from, but I believe you won't feel the same way a year from now. </p>

<p>-By sophomore year (even by second semester) your friends will fall into their niche and discover that they'd prefer to hang out in a dorm room, watch a movie, etc. I personally couldn't imagine having a quiet Saturday night after watching a movie or the like, but that's just me.</p>

<p>-In terms of racial and social class separation, I don't discount your experiences, but as a minority myself, those sort of comments are a part of life, regardless of the school you go to. I believe that in general, friends do not choose friends based on race or social class. There are certainly groups of only indians, blacks, asians, etc., but this is far from the norm. Also, I am extremely surprised to hear that you believe that the school is divided by social class, because I find that there is EXTREMELY little prodding into social backgrounds and this IS different from some of Princeton's peer institutions.</p>

<p>
[quote]
If that's not quite your thing, you don't have a big centralized place where everyone who doesn't drink comes together, which is why I think there's a feeling that "Princeton is a drinking campus". If you're willing to be slightly creative and look, though, I'd say you have a good number of options open: Murray Dodge, Cafe Viv, various clubs, etc. Put another way, there's nothing as immediately accessible to the non-drinker as the Street is to the drinker, but that's far from saying that there are no easy options available at all.

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That is probably the most intelligent analysis I have heard of the role of drinking and the clubs on the Princeton campus. It's also why being involved in an activity like the paper (kids stay in the offices late at night working) or the theater/dance groups (rehearsals until 1pm anyone?) make a difference. And why it is expected that the 4-year residential colleges will continue to expand the social options.</p>

<p>But, I never thought I'd say this, the clubs are in some ways a great thing. Kids can have fun. And they can find the fun easily.</p>

<p>Actually, the clubs seem to make the social scene less exclusive, since everyone knows where to find the parties and it's not just a word-of-mouth thing like at most other schools.</p>

<p>there's grade-deflation there? i thought there was grade-inflation</p>