<p>Of course, while still being urban, the Harvard Square area of Cambridge is one of my favorite places on the planet. The Thayer Street area around Brown seems to be trying desperately to copy it. Princeton is a cute little small town, as is Dartmouth.</p>
<p>“Besides, Harvard is very rigorous (why do you think that it is still #1 although tied with Princeton) and has been #1 for many many years?”</p>
<p>Both schools are extremely rigorous (as are Yale, MIT, and Stanford, to name just a few). Also, I believe you missed one of my previous posts. Neither school has solely held the #1 spot for many years at a time. But Princeton has been placed at the #1 spot more times than Harvard has in the past rankings (2001-2010). 9 of those years (including this year), Princeton was ranked #1. Harvard was solely ranked #1 last year. Harvard also tied Princeton a few times throughout the 2001-2008 stretch as well as this year. </p>
<p>But the rankings really aren’t that important between the two schools. It depends on how you fit in with each school. If you feel you fit at Harvard better, then by all means go there (if you get in) because you’d be happier there. But there is no difference in how rigorous each school is. I feel as if that’s what you’re implying in your post.</p>
<p>I did not know that Harvard was rigerious. My entire life opinion has shifted.</p>
<p>Never applied to any Ivy other than Princeton or Dartmouth College.</p>
<p>Chose Williams College over the two above, as I believe for my interests, a liberal arts education was more important and personally quite satisfactory. Choose wisely, as, as I did, and perhaps you will find yourself within a school that shapes your character, personality and challenges your very soul to the qualities that we espouse future leaders of our nation.</p>
<p>Go EPHS!</p>
<p>“The Daily Princetonian story appeared late Wednesday evening after the official announcement had been made by U.S. News and reported to the wire services. The Crimson story appeared just slightly more than 24 hours later. Do we get another concession?”</p>
<p>Actually, that’s not really true. The Daily Princetonian had a breaking story well before the official results were released by the U.S. News. Although the new rankings did not appear on the U.S. News website until Wednesday night (Aug 19), one of their rankings pages prematurely contained a very brief reference to the top ranking being shared by Princeton and Harvard (no other details). The Daily Princetonian jumped on this and ran a story (which already tells you that they consider this a HUGE DEAL), which they subsequently removed and replaced with a longer version. Their short story ran Wednesday morning. The Crimson did not run a story until Friday morning. So that’s two days.</p>
<p>I’m just pointing out that the Princeton people, and even the school itself, seem to be taking the U.S. News rankings a bit too seriously. That’s all.</p>
<p>Oops. I’m afraid you’re wrong again Ske, but I suppose we have to admire your determination. You’re really a stickler for details so here they are.</p>
<p>The first Daily Princetonian story ran at about 5:00 pm on Wednesday night. U.S. News had released the story to the wires Wednesday afternoon. (You’ll find other media outlets releasing stories by 7:00 pm and you can see that F.Scottie posted the official U.S. News release at 4:05 pm <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/767264-2010-usnwr-rankings-princeton-back-top.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/767264-2010-usnwr-rankings-princeton-back-top.html</a> ) There’s no doubt about the Prince story having been after the official release.</p>
<p>You’ll find the first comment appearing in the Prince story at about 5:21. There was no earlier version so far as I know but we’d be happy to see it from you if you have a link. (I’ll eat some virtual humble pie if you can provide the evidence.) They did revise the story but that didn’t occur until Thursday morning. Of course the printed publication had been available starting early Wednesday morning at selected book stores. </p>
<p>Finally, the Crimson story ran at 3:02 am on Friday morning so just after midnight. They clearly had waited until the workday on Thursday to solicit the additional comments (favorable to Harvard) from Robert Morse at USNWR and thus had to wait until late Thursday evening to write the story. </p>
<p>Is see that you’re very determined to make your point. But really. . . is this bothering you that much? Is it really eating at you that this was a tie?</p>
<p>Ske, why in gods name do you care so much about when stories were published and how does that even prove that Princeton cares more about the rankings than Harvard? If anything, the Crimson’s weird attempt to prove that they were slightly ahead of Princeton in the rankings shows that they are more ranking-obsessed. </p>
<p>Horseradish, I like you.</p>
<p>Harvardlawviolin, you sound like a ■■■■■. Going to a school for “history” is pretty dumb when its what you’re using to justify a choice between the oldest and fourth oldest schools in the country. Also, “check out their website. it is cool”? Are you kidding me. </p>
<p>Harvard is a fantastic university but so are Princeton, Yale, Stanford, etc and I don’t really think any of them are significantly better universities than the other. That being said, I think Harvard college is a horrible place to be an undergraduate. I had a fantastic time at Princeton, my friends at Yale and Stanford had great experiences but of my many friends at Harvard, most were happy to be done with the place. </p>
<p>Frankly, any school that needs a “fun czar” isn’t worth my time. Also, I am very biased towards Princeton, I will acknowledge that. But, as a Harvard grad student I do think I have enough exposure to both that I cann have an opinion based on real experience.</p>
<p>I distinctly remember seeing the Princetonian story during the day and the article itself stated that the official U.S. News rankings had NOT been released yet. It also gave a link to a U.S. News webpage that included a sentence about Harvard and Princeton being at the top in this year’s rankings. And I remember thinking “Wow, these guys are really obsessed with the U.S. News rankings”. If it upsets you so much to hear that the Princetonian ran the story 2 days before the Crimson, then I am happy to give you that one and say the Princetonian ran it at least 35 hours before the Crimson. Thanks, I hope that settles the dispute.</p>
<p>“Is see that you’re very determined to make your point. But really. . . is this bothering you that much? Is it really eating at you that this was a tie?”</p>
<p>No, of course not. I think I’ve made it pretty clear that I have a very low regard for arbitrary ranking systems like the one the U.S. News comes up with every year to sell their magazine. I think it’s you who’s very upset that I’ve pointed out some uncomfortable truths:</p>
<p>1) Princeton University trumpets their U.S. News rankings loudly on its official website (while the Harvard website remains completely silent)
2) They deliberately leave out that their top ranking was actually a tie with Harvard.
3) Princeton’s student newspaper carries it as a top story even before the official release, exuberantly, since they think it proves their school is “number 1”, whatever that means.
4) Harvard’s student newspaper carries the story two days later, after appropriate inquiries into how the rankings were tabulated and why Harvard placed where it did.</p>
<p>Look, the real problem is that way too many Princetonians suffer from an inferiority complex and look toward dumb rankings to boost their self-esteem. Too many of you seem to take “#1” literally, without ever thinking that that ranking is merely a composite of several arbitrary parameters that are given arbitrary weights by the U.S. News staff. If you change the parameters a little bit here and change the weights a little bit there, you will have completely different rankings. Get it? To get anything even remotely useful out of these rankings, you have to get some feel for what the parameters are, and that’s what the Crimson reporter actually bothered to do, unlike some imbeciles who are jumping up and down and yelling “We are number 1, yay!”. So no, they weren’t trying to “prove” that Harvard is slightly ahead or whatever, but were trying to analyze the rankings. Indeed, they find that a key reason why Harvard is “tied” with Princeton is because the administrators at the competing schools, who of course have a vested interest in seeing Harvard rank low, gave Harvard very low marks for its quality of undergraduate education. On the other hand, Stanford, Yale, and Princeton were all rated as dedicated to undergraduate education, although we all know that’s bull. </p>
<p>I agree with you that Harvard is not all that different from these three. It just happens to be first among equals in pretty much everything. The actual differences are very slight, but at the very top, such small differences can often be magnified. If you really want, I can provide a long list of things in which Harvard clearly outperforms the other three schools, although my guess is that you are probably aware of them already.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Congratulations, Ske, I think you just summed up your point of view quite succinctly. I also think most knowledgeable observers in higher education would not agree with you but you’re certainly welcome to hold to that concept of reality and you certainly don’t mince words. </p>
<p>I would encourage you, however, to make your support for Harvard known through positive statements rather than the opposite and I do get the distinct impression you’ve just revoked your earlier “concessions.” On the other hand, perhaps we should encourage you to continue with your analysis here on the Princeton board. I think it may help Princeton’s recruiting for next year!</p>
<p>We have a name for your style of argumentation in the legal profession but it’s not appropriate for a public forum.</p>
<p>Relax. Breathe in, breathe out. Enjoy life a little more.</p>
<p>Hahaha, ske293 doesn’t have jack **** on PtonGrad2000. As judge, I declare PtonGrad2000 wins the case and ske293 fails miserably as a stuck-up ■■■■■ :-). Now doesn’t that tout your anger Mwahahahahah ske293!</p>
<p>The funny thing is that at Princeton undergraduates have barely any experience of competition and comparison between unversities. We don’t have a big rivalry like Harvard and Yale. Penn tries to make one, but people really don’t notice. Don’t get me wrong. My son was chuffed to regain the co-first place honors. But during the school year Princetonians tend to pay slight attention to that sort of thing.</p>
<p>I ended up choosing Princeton over Harvard this year. I’m too lazy to type all the reasons again, but copy-pasting from one of my old posts regarding how I made the decision:</p>
<p>The initial decision was mostly based on intangibles, I think. I just felt like I belonged more at Princeton than I did at Harvard, though I was very, very happy at Harvard too! If I have to qualify the exact reasons why I felt the way I did, I would say that Princeton is a bit quieter, more focused, more academically oriented, and cozier. Harvard students (according to the general impression I got from the visit) are interested in being involved in many, many extracurricular activities which constitute a huge time commitment and a lot of energy. This is great for some people, because it makes Harvard a very vibrant, busy place. However, I think I prefer to be more selective about my interests, and would therefore find it difficult to take advantage of all the opportunities without getting too distracted from the things that matter to me. Some people (in particular the people I know who are going to Harvard) are great at balancing this - I am not. Also, Harvard is a bit more… extroverted/aggressive? In a good way, of course, but I don’t think I would be able to thrive as well there because I’m a bit shy. Also, I want to study physics, and Princeton’s undergraduate program is amazing! I know from personal experience that they really pay a lot of attention to all their students. So… yeah. But these criteria are very personal, and I can totally understand why many people would prefer Harvard.</p>
<p>physicshobo - I think you chose Princeton for all the right reasons, they align with my personal experience, and the experience of my family, my kids, and their friends, in terms of what kind of kids like which kind of school.</p>
<p>Agreed. I chose Princeton over Harvard too, and for some of the same reasons. Unlike you, though, I never felt at home at Harvard and only applied for fun since there were no required additional essays. </p>
<p>Anyway, I hope you have fun at Princeton and don’t regret not choosing Harvard. Princeton > Harvard :).</p>
<p>Hey!! I’m born in 92 also and am going to Princeton, so you should apply too!</p>