Princeton Students Take Over President’s Office, Demand Erasure Of Woodrow Wilson

Parents Forum
841

Disturbing first-person story about what it’s like to be black at Princeton:
http://www.vox.com/2015/12/7/9849382/black-at-princeton

But it gets worse. In her telling, she is brought into an interrogation room and grilled by police for a bookstore theft she didn’t commit. She is pressured to sign a confession. Although she is still 17, she is not allowed to call her parents. The other employees, who are white, do not get the same treatment.

Vox tried to verify her story about the theft and the interrogation, but Princeton was non-committal, saying the alleged events happened ten years ago. I suspect we won’t have heard the last of this.

842

^ ^

Yipes. That Vox article is eerily similar to the treatment older URM HS classmates received as Princeton students…minus the encounters with Public Safety. The omission of the last wasn’t necessarily due to the fact they didn’t experience it, but due to prevailing norms that that wasn’t something to be discussed because most people…especially older adults and even some minority students would reflexively be inclined to infer blame/guilt on the URM student rather than listen to their account in a non-judgmental manner…such as openly casting doubt on their accounts/recollections.

843

Another perspective. It’s a short read but if you read nothing else, read the last couple of paragraphs. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/magazine/the-profound-emptiness-of-resilience.html?ref=magazine&_r=0

844

The NY Times was once a great paper. While it always had some leftward bias, it was first and foremost a paper with amazing reporters. It is rapidly going downhill, with navel gazing getting more emphasis at the cost of reporting. The article that @LeftofPisa cited is one example, along with another article yesterday called “White Debt” (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/magazine/white-debt.html). Both articles are complete and utter tripe.

The NY Times article tried to diminish an article written by James Kirchick, who said that real discrimination was faced by James Meredith, the first black student at the University of Mississippi in 1962. While I don’t doubt that Meredith was honest when he said that “Mississippi kicked my butt”, the world has changed dramatically since 1962.

Curious, I read the original James Kirchick article (http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/194869/growing-up-at-yale), and I, found it much more compelling.Yale once invited a speaker who had said that 9/11 was the work of Jews with the quote “Who told 4000 Israeli workers at the Twin Towers/ To stay home that day? …” Yet Yale allowed this person to speak on campus, believing that college is a place where diverse opinions, even those highly insulting to Jews like James Kirchick, must be tolerated.

I wonder just how tolerant the Black student groups at Princeton would be if a speaker was invited to campus with the message that Blacks have much they need to fix on their own (starting with building stable two-parent families that emphasize education and lawful behavior) before they blame the world for their problems.

My guess is, not very.

845

Jeeze, just when this thread is ready to die…

I don’t doubt there may have been some issues for people of color and economic class at Princeton over the years, as at many campuses, but that narrative has real issues. Vox is consistent I’ll give em that.

846

I hadn’t seen it until you posted it here (thanks), but I thought it made some interesting points. In particular about being Caucasian or white and what that (doesn’t) mean.

847

Cobrat, not content with using a few classmates’ experience as the basis for your assertions that you know the truth about was like to be a URM at Princeton in the mid-90s, now you seem to be speculating that maybe those classmates had had run-ins with Public Safety, but had never mentioned it - I find it mind-boggling that you feel that it’s acceptable to graft complete speculation about Public Safety encounters onto your previous comments.

The Vox story as it relates to the supposed U Store theft is very disturbing. However, some of what Ms. Winters speaks about doesn’t seem race-related in the least. For example, the “structural inadequacies” of the university are somehow cited as evidence that a friend with disabilities was discriminated against. However, many of the buildings at the University are quite old (dorms etc.) and lack elevators and her friend could be reading more into the situation than is the case. The fact that Public Safety said it would take good care of her and then took Ms. Winters to the campus health center to be placed under “psychiatric watch” is cited as something terrible. However, my experience at Princeton as well as that of my children is that many members of the university staff view the health center as a safe spot for those experiencing distress and this might have seemed like the best way to proceed with a crying, extremely upset, somewhat incoherent student (and I am not saying that the situation was her fault, just that some of the story might not be related to any animus against URM students). And quite frankly, I believe that Princeton, like many schools, is not very strong in the area of mental health in general. When faced with a student who is struggling with stress and anxiety, as Ms. Winters clearly was (she mentions asking for extensions in introductory level classes when she was sick from stress), professors and administrators have wildly inconsistent responses. Racist? I don’t know.

848

hebegebe the speaker you suggested in 843 should go to Liberty University. I am sure he would be more than welcome there. Could you explain to us the difference between real and not real discrimination. That is a very interesting concept to say the least

It sounds like some of the professors at Princeton are unfamiliar with the ADA at least with URMs

849

@tiger1307 ,

Yes Liberty University would welcome such a speaker, given that they were polite in receiving Bernie Sanders recent speech: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-09-14/bernie-sanders-and-liberty-university-agree-to-disagree

Given that Liberty U students didn’t need a “safe place” that is free of a Socialist, why are students at better schools unable to cope with views they disagree with?

As far as unreal discrimination goes, students at the Black Cultural Center at Vanderbilt reported a hate crime to the police when dog feces was left outside its building.

http://www.vanderbilthustler.com/news/article_96883f8e-8da3-11e5-ad47-af9ea2db222d.html

850

Tiger1307, the ADA does not require retrofitting of all old buildings - there are exceptions where it is not readily achievable. And if the first floor of a building is accessible, it is not necessarily required that the entire building be made accessible -it’s a somewhat complicated area.

And once again, assuming that this is an issue involving racism against URMs seems like a stretch. Yes, the professor/administrator was insensitive and wrong. Was it done because the student was a URM? No way to tell.

851

@hebegebe Liberty U is not exactly the place that you portray. It is really into brain washing and total censorship.
As the 2012 writer below said Liberty is a disgrace to higher education. BTW the students at Liberty are FORCED to attend speeches Students at Liberty need a safe place from Jerry Falwell.

Here is from a 2009 piece in Fire

"Then I discovered Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University, which—just for a start—actually requires students to sign a contract recognizing that they will be relinquishing many of their most basic rights in order to attend. Liberty also forbids, among many other things, the viewing of R-rated movies in its residence halls. Music and video games that run counter to Liberty’s standards of morality as informed by the school’s reading of the Bible are similarly prohibited. Liberty also forbids female students from wearing two-piece bathing suits, judges any dating behavior beyond handholding as inappropriate, and places the bedrooms of opposite-sex students (whether on- or off-campus) off limits entirely. Students are taught to “respect authority,” are trained as “visionary champions for Christ,” and are required to attend convocation or chapel three times a week. As Robert noted in his blog entry from last week, the “About Liberty” section on the school’s website advertises Liberty as “distinctive” for maintaining

An uncompromising doctrinal statement, based upon an inerrant Bible, a Christian worldview beginning with belief in biblical Creationism, an eschatological belief in the pre-millennial, pre-tribulational coming of Christ for all of His Church, dedication to world evangelization, an absolute repudiation of “political correctness,” a strong commitment to political conservatism, total rejection of socialism, and firm support for America’s economic system of free enterprise.

Based on these clearly enunciated policies and the contract, time and time again I have used Liberty University as an example of a university that no one could attend not knowing that they were giving up an extraordinary number of rights. It is not plausible to think that anyone could read the contract that Liberty University requires applicants to sign and say “Gosh, I had no idea the university Jerry Falwell founded was so restrictive!” See, for example, Section 6, titled “Agreement,” which reads:

I am applying for admission to Liberty University. I am familiar with the doctrine, standards and programs of the University as stated in The Liberty Way, found on Liberty’s website at www.liberty.edu/studentaffairs. I am prepared to abide by the codes of conduct and rules and regulations of the University set forth therein. I certify that all of the information given in this application is complete and accurate to the best of my knowledge.

Just below the signature line, in case an applicant had somehow reached this point by accident, is the bolded, italicized statement: “Liberty University‘s mission is to produce Christ-centered men and women with the values, knowledge, and skills required to impact tomorrow’s world.“ Signing this and not realizing that one had agreed to live according to a very particular worldview would be like someone joining the military and then being shocked that they could not take afternoons off whenever they felt like it."

and here is from a 2012 piece in Academe

"The ironically-named Liberty University also has one of the most repressive campus speech codes in the country. The university banned the College Democrats in 2009 out of opposition to the national policies of the Democratic Party.

The university openly promotes its repression of dissent as part of what makes it “distinctive”:

An uncompromising doctrinal statement, based upon an inerrant Bible, a Christian worldview beginning with belief in biblical Creationism, an eschatological belief in the pre-millennial, pre-tribulational coming of Christ for all of His Church, dedication to world evangelization, an absolute repudiation of “political correctness,” a strong commitment to political conservatism, total rejection of socialism, and firm support for America’s economic system of free enterprise.

Liberty might be the only college in America that requires devotion to a particular theory of economics for its students and staff.

Liberty is a disgrace to higher education. It has no respect for academic freedom and demands censorship of everyone on campus. "

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@tiger1307 @hebegebe - but you know, the students at Liberty seem so well-behaved. That just makes it all worthwhile. :wink:

853

The demerits system for things like sneaking dorm meals one/one’s parents paid for back to one’s room, participating in a protest whose content is contrary to the college’s “Christian values” as interpreted by the admins, being caught with music/reading materials considered contrary to those values on or off-campus*…including those by Christian groups, swearing, wearing certain articles of clothing like Durags, etc is such that some students may be inclined to play the game of seeing how fast one can rack up enough demerits for a suspension/expulsion from such an institution of higher education…

  • If one's permitted to live off-campus nearby, the college admins do reserve the right to make periodic home inspections to ensure students are complying with Liberty's student regulations.
854

I wouldn’t touch Liberty U wth a 10 foot pole, but they’re entitled to set up their college how they like. You know what you’re getting going in.

855

@tiger1307,

You attempted to setup a strawman by injecting Liberty University into the discussion as a place where intolerance is practiced. I just showed that even Liberty University can be tolerant of guest speakers with views they disagree with, such as Bernie Sanders. I never said they were a fine school or that I agree with them politically, but in this case they behaved better than Princeton/Yale students.

Going back to the James Kirchik article, it was actually the Yale Afro-American cultural center that invited the speaker who said that Jews were responsible for 9/11. We know this is absolutely false, but I ask again, would that same Afro-American be tolerant of a guest speaker that said that Blacks should look inward and fix their own problems before casting all blame on others?

856

My black friends at Princeton say that the group instigating these protest DO NOT represent the black community there. The group is made up of a small fraction of the black population at Princeton.

Just putting it out there (I’m a pro-black activist eho thinks this is dumb as hell. Although Wilson was a blatant racist, its really not serious to hinder your education over such a reach.)

857

So why don’t these students say so loudly? Publish an article or better yet hold a counter-protest in front of the President’s building. The problem is that the silent majority at Princeton (and Yale) are too scared to be called racists and intimidated by the bullies to publicly call out their absurd demands.

858

@hebegebe Liberty University tolerant? The students are forced to attend speeches and if they protest or say anything negative they risk expulsion from school That is the anthesis of tolerance.

859

LIberty University is what it wants to be. The protesting students at Yale and Princeton are saying that their colleges presently are not what they want to be.

860

Forty years earlier at Princeton one of the students filed a complaint with the department of health education and welfare complaining that Princeton discriminated in its hiring and its admission of the students. I wonder how much has changed since?

The loud mouth student never made it to wall street. I guess they werent enough of a team player.They did make it to the supreme court though