Inbtw a lot of the content of this debate is somewhat rubbish. Not particularly your comment but that of those who keep saying they are “fighting back” The President has not agree to anything definitive. He has agreed to write to the trustees to consider their requests after weighing in on the whole campus’s opinion:
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S44/82/14K15/index.xml?section=topstories
Really you guys should at least attempt some modicum of veracity in your arguments.
The Congo thing is interesting. Percussion is not inherently disrespectful. If they were called Urban Viking would there be a problem, even if by no means all whites have Norwegian ancestry? Could black students get away with Urban Congo, even if they have no Congolese ancestry? Could black students make an Urban Viking group without much objection?
@awcntb that type of behavior works for donald trump and he could be the next president, Maybe they are both from New York City. Dont you think in that vain she is acting presidential. What exactly did you mean by “that kind of behavior may work were she is from”? Were you making some reference to the black community?
If you are in a public place, engaging in conduct of putative public interest, a photographer with a journalistic purpose is allowed to take your photograph.
The issue in the Mizzou photographer case, and the Yale student video, and the initial demands made by the Princeton protesters is not that the protest was going on, or even the subject of the protest. I think that virtually everyone would agree that you have the right to voice your concerns/opinions about issues of the day. The issue is that in all three cases the protesters came across as bullies who had no real interest in engagement on the topic. They exhibited behavior where there own personalized perspective was the only legitimate one, and showed a marked inability to deal with people who disagreed with them.
Personally, I think the Princeton protesters came off the “best” here, because while some of their demands were ludicrous, there is no reporting of violent confrontation, or an attempt to shut down other view points. At the end of the day, they did spark a conversation about Woodrow Wilson’s racism, which is not a bad thing. I also think Eisgruber came off well, as he didn’t really give them anything other than an agreement that they would not be disciplined.
Good questions. However one has to take a quick look at history to understand why this is a problem. 200 years from now this might not be a problem, but we are not too far removed from imperialism, colonialism and how the dismissal and caricature of such cultures were used as an argument to deny people their autonomy.
http://dailyprincetonian.com/opinion/2015/04/what-we-can-learn-from-urban-congo/
I would throw your question back- ask yourselves why did the students not choose Urban Viking? There are several western cultures one could choose from, the Celtics, the Anglo-Saxons, the Gauls, the Romans, the Jutes e.t.c. Why that name?
The question is what is your motive?
There are also several cultural dances around various campuses which have not caused any problem. Things get problematic when people decide to caricature situations.
“I think the students would agree that he was behaving as a typical reporter might. However, a good journalist might have tried establishing his bona fides as a fellow student first, and then if that failed, pursue his putative rights as a journalist…Being a professional at any job includes having a modicum of people skills, and Tai didn’t exhibit many. He was stiff and inflexible, unable to establish any personal rapport with the people standing right in front of him. He’s not going to have much of a future in journalism, if he’s the center of every story.”
ROFL. Mizzou is one of the top 3 j-schools in this country, and my alma mater is one of the other 2. This is what journalism is about - reporting objectively on news and newsmakers. Not cozying up to people and hoping that they’ll spare you some words out of the kindness of their hearts, and accepting whatever they deign to grant you with a “thank you, I’ll scurry away now.” Please.
^^ The question is also not just in the name itself. FYI this is a “joke” dance club. Sometimes it gets tiring explaining to people why this is a problem when it is intuitive. So imagine when the club was being formed a group of suburban kids were sitting down thinking about what might be a funny dance for them. By the way, there are many ways to express yourself that is funny. Thousands except you truly lack creativity. And guess what they came up with?
Then when students decided to complain about the show, students started cyber-bullying them on social media. Anonymous cowardly cyber-bullying tactics and students were receiving threats.
God bless, the Yale black students were trying to dodge a storm.
So…what exactly was the story he came away with?
Mainly, I think, because there is no fun percussion tradition in Viking culture.
The Vikings did dance and had instruments. So did the Gauls, Jutes, Romans and other cultures in medieval Europe had percussion instruments and had there own dances. They could easily have done a dance with Cymbals as Greeks. They might not draw laughs if that is what you are saying since they are not perceived as “funny” but you essentially proved the point.
Fun is not the same as funny. They wanted percussion drums, not cymbals. You proved the point, that they should consider race above musical preference.
You said percussion is not offensive. I agreed though I was very perplexed tbh because this has nothing to do with instrument choice. They had no real instruments throughout the show. They used trashcans and a yellow traffic cone to depict instruments. Drum imagery are not limited to Africans and could be ascribed to Native Americans. However, the name, the dance, and everything put together tells you the obvious. Except you are really really not bright or you are tying to play idiot’s advocate.
Your attempt at the Socratic method is difficult to follow rationally. The reason is that there are very few instances (if any) where black students dress up in such parodies to mock cultures. The reverse is more common. Even then, many people who are Caucasian, dress up in African attire, drum and live and work on that continent, and engage in African cultural shows. No one goes in an uproar. So that also negates your attempt at Socratic questioning.
I pointed out that their imagery and depiction of a culture is perceived as offensive since historically the distribution of such imagery has caused a lot of issues in the past.
Yeah right like I said anything about race vs. cultural misrepresentation.
The students were not selecting an “instrument for fun.” They are not showing any musical performance or art or preference whatsoever. Apparently, them boys have a preference for fun trash can musics :).
Someone asked if the Black kids could get away with Urban Congo even if they had no Congolese ancestry.
We are all pretty much aware that most Black Americans have no idea what their ancestry past a certain period is, right?
I do not mean to minimize the point of the question, but there really is no getting around this issue. (I’ve never heard of a vitriolic group of good citizens yelling “Go back to the Congo!”
I only jump in this thread every once in a while, so forgive if at this point in the thread where the Princeton Urban Viking issue is being discussed if I mention something which has to be obvious to all, and hashed out.
If someone is asking why the idea of a group named Urban(Anything) may evoke concerns of a focus on themes and issues related to Blacks, just look at how careful people are to use “urban” as euphemism, and “suburban” as euphemism.
When you read those words in this discussion, or in the paper, or hear them during news reports, are you confused about what they people at the focus of the statements may look like?
He was very effective in showing that the protesters did not believe in the first amendment and that they were immature to the point that they needed a “safe place” on public state grounds for their protest. The only person who came out of this looking good was Tim.
@hebegebe Here is another take away. Tim clearly escalated the situation because of his immature behavior. See the editorial in the Washington Post
Well, you’re half right. Tim himself admits that he was not actually trying to break into the camp grounds when confronted by the protest organizers. He has said in subsequent interviews that he respected the idea of a safe space. It appears that he was set up as a test patsy for the concept. I went back and tried to find a few newspaper articles that would give some context to the videotape and it’s clear that Tim Tai’s only beef was that they blocked - or, attempted to block - his shots:
As a well-behaved child - Tim. As future hedge fund managers - the protesters. 
circuitrider,
Why do you have a habit of making statements about industries you know nothing about?
I am a portfolio manager in the investment management field, including time as a hedge fund manager. Nobody I know would hire any of the protesters.
I know.
@hebegebe I think all of the protesters would fit in perfectly at Bridgewater Associates