Princeton Students Take Over President’s Office, Demand Erasure Of Woodrow Wilson

The above demonstrates to a T why Oberlin would have been an extremely poor fit for you on personality grounds alone.

We tend to celebrate the extreme quirkiness and sometimes off-the-wall antics of our classmates in our campus culture…sometimes to admitted excess.

Incidentally, you’d probably hate some of the social science seminars I’ve had as in seminar discussions students and sometimes even the Profs would go on extremely wild tangents with jokes which end up getting very far from the main topic of discussion unless one’s intellectual imagination could stretch to accommodate them and one actually did the vast majority of the readings.

There is a heck of a lot of second-guessing what goes on in the minds of members of a “dominant majority” going on in certain posts here.

Well, I am not white, and I agree with Sue22. If you seek to find racism everywhere, you will find it. If you are not looking for it, my experience is that it happens rarely.

In my nearly 50 years, I can count literally only a few racial incidents that I remember, even though my skin is darker than most blacks. Two of them were in my 20s: A group of us walked into a redneck biker bar by accident once, and another time I was jogging when other rednecks yelled at me while I was jogging. And a few years ago while I was driving, somebody told me to “Go back where I came from”. I am sure there were a few other incidents over the years as well, but apparently weren’t important enough for me to remember.

Wow, Cobrat. The point of my post sailed completely over your head. You’re not particularly skilled at reading nuance here on CC: it’s a fair bet you might have had a weakness in that area back then too. You seem to assume everyone around you was amused rather than irked.

And you failed to understand that not every campus or college class are filled with folks like yourself who tend to be conformist to establishment norms and get extremely judgmental of others when they do not.

Underscored in posts on a range of threads from the merits/issues with holistic admissions to elite colleges to fashion choices/norms on college campuses like the thread about how one student avoided consideration of GWU’s campus due to the prevailing fashion norms of wearing expensive brand name clothing/bags usually only affordable for the upper/upper-middle classes.

There’s nothing “conformist” about wanting to actually learn (and not be distracted by the unfunny class clown) when sitting in a college classroom.

You don’t know anything about me. You are not one to talk about conformist, given that all you do is hear “white, upper middle class, suburban” and you have already constructed a little box in which you’ve determined I need to sit. I am far more complicated than your little stereotype.

One critical difference is by virtue of being a member of the dominant majority, one’s opinions and accounts are much more likely to be accepted and believed without nearly as much scrutiny or second-guessing.

Think of how much more often accounts of discriminatory treatment/experiences from marginalized groups are still reflexively heavily discounted in parts of the American mainstream…including by some CC commenters here as opposed to relative silence or inclination to automatically believe supposed victims or criminal defendants from the dominant majority who were later found to have been hoaxers on that score:

https://atlantablackstar.com/2015/01/09/worst-cases-white-people-wrongfully-accusing-black-people-committing-crimes/

Another example is how many in the American mainstream still have trouble with the idea or refuse to label mostly White and/or Christian individuals and groups who do things like blow up Federal government buildings, shoot and kill police and workers at Planned Parenthood, shoot up/set fire to religious institutions belonging to racial/religious minorities*, or set off bombs/kill doctors who perform abortions are also terrorists.

  • I.e. Wade Michael Page who murdered several people at a Sikh temple in 2012, Dylan Roof who turned out had strong sympathies with White Supremacists in the US and formerly White dominated African nations like Rhodesia, KKK, American Neo-Nazis/White supremacist militia groups, etc.

White Anericans are not a monolith. I am tired of being lumped with the white-American fools who worship the Kardashians or the white-American fools who worship high school football or the white-American fools who eat McDonalds morning, noon and night. Stop calling us all the “dominant majority.” I have nothing in common with the people I described other than skin color.

And yet you engage in the same sort of second-guessing that’s common among too many in the dominant majority in this very thread when you jumped on one minor imperfection in Waiting2Exhale’s account of racist treatment at the hands of a Prof who grudgingly gave her an A because her actual academic performance merited it. This was after the same Prof initially reflexively assumed she was a remedial student and when she found the paper she wrote to be an excellent one, reflexively assumed she was cheating.

This sort of second-guessing and jumping on red-herring points to do so is exactly the issue marginalized groups are subjected to on a much more routine and regular basis as pointed out by warbrain in post #934.

@hebegebe you stated in your experience racism rarely exists. We dont know what your experience consists of. If you spend all your time in Menlo Park, the Hamptons or Vermont that may be true. However racism is getting worse in this country not better. You cant make generalizations about other people if you have never stood in their shoes

Popping some popcorn and pulling up a seat…

I don’t know why - cobrat does it all the time

And midatlmom’s another poster who has done the same sort of dominant-majority second-guessing underscored by warbrain’s post in #934 which puts off most members of marginalized groups.

And in the process…proving warbrain’s and to an extent…some of those student protestors’ points.

I think it is more that some people dont like what cobrat has to say rather than cobrat making generalizations To quote an old adage sometimes the truth can be painful

@sorghum: Of course, I continued to attend that history class, and the professor chose his words with consideration and deliberateness to open the floor up to discussion. (The class was one where he tended to lecture, and ask the rhetorical, not expecting it to be answered.)

I assumed the professor knew as well as I did that Black slaveholders predominantly purchased their relatives and loved ones out of slavery by, in turn, becoming the slaveholder of record. There was nothing which precluded that conversation from happening in the next class, or at some point later in the semester, as it was a history course.

Understand this, sorghum, the professor knew the line he’d crossed, and the thoughtlessness that lead him there. There were no charges of racism assailed at the professor, and there was no more surprise that this man would say what he did except for his being a History Professor.

This was one of those times when his training and education, preparation, lesson planning and time on this earth should have made his approach one where he was not caught off-guard at a Black student’s reaction to his mindlessness.

Others in my life have behaved such, and while it may be hard for white people to hear this, I have allowed for, forgiven, let drop and simply filed away 'til later, many of the dumb, crass, bigoted things that have been said to me by white neighbors, longtime associates, new friends of friends, older white folk, and even one sister-in-law who is one of the most fabulous people I know. What you may not realize is many people of color have often chosen to do so when we’ve felt the other person 1)either didn’t catch that the offensive comment about “that” group could easily be understood to have been made about my group, and 2)instantly realized that what was said was offensive and then they stumbled through the rest of the interaction.

Let’s be clear, Black people can be thoughtless in that regard as well, but Black people really, truly have had more experience knowing how to be in two places at one time: grounded in self, with all the dignity and knowledge of how hard they have worked to be seen (Ha! Didn’t intend to invoke Ellison) as valuable and fit to be in the space they inhabit, and how to exist in the space they inhabit in others’ minds - against and outside of their own personal truths.

Sorghum, are you aware that as most of here are of a certain age, I assume, that means the Black people here (at least this one) were raised by, steeped in, and understood themselves as the fruit of, the dream of, the elders in the Black families and communities we came from. We didn’t need to be told what our parents had been through by watching a documentary - we lived with those people. There were signs in our daily lives of the weary years our parents spent, and the silent tears they’d cried. We were aware of the denial of GI Bill college access and mortgages, aware of the home births that rendered our parents without official state documents, aware of the medical conditions that were the result of denial of medical care in critical time that left this uncle with a limp, that aunt with a weakened pulse and a nervous condition due to gone-too-long Rheumatic Fever.

I’ve heard what you’ve said, and I’ve asked for you to understand that we are, in my generation, and were, the repositories of memory, and the limbs of a fruit that would be allowed to ripen on the tree for those whose lives were systematically cast in shadow. We knew.

The older music professor dismissed this fact of our lives, or our existence. He looked at us, the girls in jeans and dyed hair, the boys in jeans and t-shirts, and thought of us what he had probably been aware had been thought of him at one time in his life: that we were nothing. That we knew nothing.

He was wrong on all counts.

Tiger1307,
You are new around these parts. Welcome to cc. But that means, unless you have been a lurker for years and years, you may not have had the opportunity to see the pattern of over-generalizations to which some posters refer. When you have a moment, you might want to read back posts that reflect a pattern suggesting that people with any potential power are frequently perceived as nefarious, controlling, bossy or odious. And if they happen to have any financial means, they are elitist snobs.

Actually tiger1307 and cobrat, if you read my posts, you will see that I have criticized cobrat for making sweeping generalizations about Princeton based on anecdotes from a few of his HS friends/classmates who apparently attended the school in the mid 90’s without bothering to review the facts and without acknowledging the lack of objectivity lacing many of his posts. And I have questioned you, tiger1307, about whether you have any personal experience of Princeton, even though you have been quick to criticize the school based on, apparently, news accounts and the fact that one of your children got in and didn’t attend.

In terms of the actual argument here, I think that Sue22 has stated my views very well,

I think that we are all able, even members of “dominant majority” groups, to experience empathy and to understand situations that we have not confronted. However, I do not think that means that we must uncritically accept as true every statement made by a member of a marginalized group, or every allegation made by someone facing a situation we might not have encountered, which is what I believe cobrat and tiger1307 are fundamentally saying (maybe not exactly, but that is the thrust of most of their comments). Moreover, I believe that the refusal to accept any nuance in the so-called “dominant majority” thinking and, in essence, the assumption that only you speak for a certain group is not conducive to change or making things better.

"And yet you engage in the same sort of second-guessing that’s common among too many in the dominant majority in this very thread "

Well, that’s because I’m white and upper middle class, of course. Those are the defining characteristics of who I am. It’s only natural - I can’t help it. I can’t possibly have any opinions other than those already assigned to me as a upper middle, suburban, elite-educated white woman.

Give it up, cobrat. Every time you do the “this reminds me of a friend / classmate / whatever” you’re basically engaging in stereotyping. Take the arguments people present here on their face value, not through a lens of what color the hands are that are typing them.

Others in my life have behaved such, and while it may be hard for white people to hear this, I have allowed for, forgiven, let drop and simply filed away 'til later, many of the dumb, crass, bigoted things that have been said to me by white neighbors, longtime associates, new friends of friends, older white folk, and even one sister-in-law who is one of the most fabulous people I know. What you may not realize is many people of color have often chosen to do so when we’ve felt the other person 1)either didn’t catch that the offensive comment about “that” group could easily be understood to have been made about my group, and 2)instantly realized that what was said was offensive and then they stumbled through the rest of the interaction.

Thank you.

I agree, but… I think if these things that could be race based, but maybe aren’t happen over and over and over far more often than they do to white people you know that at least some of them are indeed race-based. I hope that both of waitingtoexhale’s professors learned something from him/her. It’s important for African-Americans to speak up because I don’t think most white people really realize how pernicious some of this stuff is. I live in a very diverse neighborhood and we’ve become much better at talking to each other in the last few years. It’s hard. It’s painful. There are things that the majority did with the best of intentions that ended up being hurtful.

I had my eyes opened up a little when my son started talking about some of the experiences he had with our local police depending on which friends he was hanging out with. (They weren’t doing anything wrong, but the tone with which they were questioned varied tremendously depending on who was in the group.) It was pretty shocking.