<p>OK so even though got into Penn and Brown too, I'm down to Princeton, Harvard, and Columbia for schools. I would be majoring in something along the lines of political science/international relations. </p>
<p>Just visited Princeton and I loved the academics, but the social scene was lacking.</p>
<p>Columbia has NYC, my dream city but I don't kno if the academics are as good.</p>
<p>Harvard is Harvard but I don't just want to go there for the name.</p>
<p>I live in NJ near Princeton, and I'm unsure if it's too close to home.</p>
<p>Well one of the things I liked about Harvard was that it’s easier to get into Harvard Law which is good for political science and then at Princeton you run the risk of having to settle for a politics major because people don’t always get accepted to W. Wilson.</p>
<p>Btw: Harvard’s Kennedy School of Gov’t is pretty awesome. But I don’t know how you get in.</p>
<p>The Kennedy School is a grad school. Undergrads don’t get in. Grad students get in the way they would any other non-professional masters or PhD program.</p>
<p>Princeton’s social scene is lacking? maybe during Princeton preview, because it’s on lockdown, but I would say Princeton has a much better social scene than Harvard, and definitely a more campus-oriented social scene than Columbia. Sure, we don’t have nightclubs in town, but we do have the eating clubs, which are a great and centralized social scene.</p>
<p>Eating clubs are elitist and ridiculous and only for upperclassmen who can get in. I know that there is no social life because I have undergrad friends who say that your best hope of a life is to get drunk on Thursday or Saturday nights.</p>
<p>SusieBra it sounds like you really don’t understand the eating clubs. Though some of them are perceived as “elitist,” the majority of the clubs are down-to-earth and very open to everyone. Sure, you might need a pass for some of the clubs, but those are not all too hard to get if you’re friendly and know anyone from any of the many other social opportunities on campus (athletics, a ton of extracurricular organizations, dorm life). </p>
<p>The best way to describe Princeton’s social scene is transparent. At many other schools (Harvard and Yale in particular) elitism lurks in the background. You have to “know people” to know where the “good parties” are. At Princeton, everything is right there on the Street. So you might be really disgusted by the “ridiculous” and “elitist” clubs, but trust me, at least in the Ivy league, that will exist everywhere.</p>
<p>^^ Yeah. I think I understand them perfectly. This article is so revealing and so tragic that I think it alone should force Princeton to rethink its ways and amend its exclusive, selective and unfair system.</p>
<p>And, no, this doesn’t exist everywhere. I loved that I could even live in an apartment suite at Penn without having to worry about the cost. I could never be part of an eating club and shame on an “esteemed” university that would exclude me from one for financial reasons.</p>
<p>First of all, the eating clubs are independent from the University. The financial aid gap discussed in the article is for social fees: the University covers the average eating cost at the clubs for students who really need it. A few students can’t afford the social fees (which amount to a couple thousand a year), which sucks. The University does have reasons for not paying this money, because if they covered it, they would essentially be paying independent organizations over which they have little control money for alcohol. I think it is completely understandable that they don’t cover the costs, and I know some students like the one described in the article who took out independent loans to be able to cover the cost. They didn’t regret it, because the eating clubs provided a truly unique experience. As for the few students that can’t afford the eating clubs, which is unfortunate, they are by no means barred from them at night. My best friend is not joining an eating club in order to save money, but she regularly goes out and doesn’t harbor the same (uninformed) resentment against the eating clubs you seem to have. </p>
<p>Sorry for the long-winded response. I’ve noticed you’ve been spreading this around a lot on the Princeton board, so I wanted to give another opinion.</p>
<p>I would also say that eating clubs have changed dramatically in the last decade or so-- my mom – who went to princeton in the 70s–won’t believe me when I tell her the people I know who are in ivy- which could be described possibly as the closest thing to the “socialite” scene. The most expensive eating clubs actually are so well endowed that they have financial aid to cover the costs for some members.</p>
<p>You obviously didn’t read the article. These are university-subsidized eating club that not everyone can take part in. They should put a caveat below the discussion of eating clubs in the view book: Must be a wealthy socialite to take part.</p>
<p>I’m still disgusted by such exclusivity and I think that this “progressive” university should be forced to amend its ways or end the socialite scene. Otherwise, I would hope that legal action would be taken in due time.</p>
<p>Actually SusieBra, ec1234 has personal knowledge of Princeton because he/she goes there, not just the sort of derivative knowledge you have by visiting for two days and reading an article. </p>
<p>I hope that your misinformed and illogical posts are not completely indicative of the type of person you are because it’s going to be a tough few years for you at any school if you continue to carry that rather massive chip on your shoulder. Penn is an excellent school–it is not paradise however and you’re going to be surprised by how pervasive the frat/sorority scene is in the social life of the school and how many “wealthy socialites” you’ll find there.</p>
<p>Princeton does not cover the social costs of eating clubs, but many many students on financial aid are members of the clubs. Some of the clubs offer financial aid or installment plans in connection with social fees and very few students are excluded because of these fees. In addition, Princeton offers 4 year residential colleges with dining halls and as you have heard repeatedly on this forum (but refuse to listen to because you know better based on your short visit and perusal of a story and a few letters in the Daily Princetonian), students who are not in the clubs find it very easy to get into even closed club parties.</p>
<p>I suppose you’ll continue to post your complaints based on very little knowledge (initially you were upset that you wouldn’t be able to live at the clubs, until you were told that almost no one lives at the clubs), but I would hope that people who are interested in Princeton would listen to the students who attend the school.</p>
<p>SusieBra, this will be my last post in response to your inflammatory remarks. Feel free to respond, but I’d rather devote rest of the limited time I spend on these forums reaching out to students who are receptive to what I have to say.</p>
<p>In response to: “You obviously didn’t read the article”: Not only did I read the article, but I digested it for you and elaborated it further. In case you didn’t understand: the core problem at the center of the article is that the University does not cover social fees under financial aid, though it does voluntarily cover dining costs (a recent measure designed to level the playing field). The lack of coverage for social costs–ranging from a few hundred to a few thousand in the extreme cases–deters some students who cannot afford the fees out of their own pockets, such as Rafael. </p>
<p>My elaboration of the article was that 1) it is reasonably understandable that the University does not subsidize independent organizations that use these social fees primarily for alcohol and 2) that the students who cannot afford eating clubs can still maintain an active relationship with the clubs, and some choose to take the burden of these fees on themselves and don’t regret it. </p>
<p>As for the “caveat” you yearn for in the viewbook: “Must be a wealthy socialite to take part.” I know many, many students on financial aid who are in eating clubs who are hardly “wealthy socialites.” I myself only pay half of the ticket price of Princeton and I am in Terrace, one of the non-selective clubs. As ec1234 pointed out, some of the clubs like Ivy still do have somewhat of a “socialite” reputation, but the majority of the clubs are distinctly more down-to-earth. To make an apt comparison, I’m willing to bet that some of the fraternities and sororities at Penn have a “socialite” image, and that some students are not able to participate because of cost issues. Don’t pat yourself on the back too early for escaping “elitism”: you’re going to an Ivy League school.</p>
<p>Finally, as for the “legal action” you call for (which is untenable based on the fact that the University has no legal obligation to fund the alcohol tab of the students): Princeton has done everything in its power to extend the social horizon for students here. We have three four-year residential colleges and many students choose to go independent, for which there is an apartment-like complex. Finally there are the three co-ops, which offer both a social and dining experience. For all of these options there is no worry of cost, because they are fully covered by financial aid. And all of those students still have ample opportunity to go to the street at night–for free–and still enjoy their own social scene. </p>
<p>I reasonably suspect that this reply will not really change your conception of Princeton, SusieBra, though I honestly hope it will. I wish you good luck at Penn, but I hope that you aren’t too single-minded when you get there, because you may be sorely disillusioned.</p>
<p>maricelag21: don’t worry about Woody Woo. Within politics, you can major in: American Politics, Comparative Politics, Political Theory, Political Economy, or International Relations. You pick one primary and one secondary field of concentration out of these.</p>
<p>Susie: I’ve read a lot of your posts tonight. I don’t mean this personally/maliciously etc, but I am kind of glad you’re not coming here. Like you don’t seem to even want to give the clubs a chance. At every turn you are expecting the worst from the clubs, and so all you perceive seems to be terrible. For a moment I wondered why you were admitted, and then I remembered that the administration is actively trying to recruit students who they believe will be disenchanted with the eating clubs and instead join the university’s socially engineered “utopias” that are known here as four-year residential colleges. I hope the university will be thwarted in its effort to do so - I mean, the four-year colleges definitely have a right to exist and SHOULD exist as an option for upperclassmen, but I feel that the university does things to push more kids into them (and this is where I am displeased with the administration) such as only renovating dorms that are part of the res colleges (junior dorms suck) and offering exceptional room draw times to upperclassmen who remain in the res colleges.</p>