Princeton vs Columbia (John Jay Scholar) vs Penn (University Scholar) vs Brown for Premed

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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<p>Hi so obviously I have a great choice which I'm very happy about but I'm struggling from choosing among these four schools.</p>

<p>Princeton:</p>

<p>I think Princeton is the most prestigious of the four, and it boasts around a 95% med school acceptance rate. However, when I visited Princeton, they said that a lot of premeds will take a year off before applying to med school, which is something I don't want to do. So I'm wondering if the 95% means just those who apply without taking a year off or includes everyone no matter what year they applied. I think Princeton gives a great education and I love the campus and everything, but I'm worried about the grade deflation issue everyone keeps talking about and if it would limit my chances for med school, if the courses might be too challenging, and also if the atmosphere is too stressful. Also the lack of a hospital to do research at might be a setback. However I could always do clinical research over the summer and also Princeton requires you to do research which would be a good boost to my resume. Also I think the other students there might be way too smart and make me look worse. Will I have to spend time studying 24/7?</p>

<p>Columbia:</p>

<p>I like how Columbia is in the city, which would provide a lot of internship opportunities because of the close proximity to different hospitals and everything. I also got awarded to be a John Jay Scholar, so I would get separate advising and some other perks, though I'm not sure how helpful this is. The main issue with Columbia for me is the core because of all the reading required and this might prohibit me from focusing on science. Also I think that Princeton might be better known/be more impressive when applying to med school. Would going to Columbia be more helpful with getting me into Columbia med school?</p>

<p>Penn:</p>

<p>Penn seems to be the college that wants me the most because it sent me a likely letter and asked me to be a University Scholar and a Vagelos Scholar. I think a University Scholar would be helpful for med school, though its requirement of doing research over the summer is basically the same thing as what Princeton requires without being in a special program. I'm not sure if the separate advising or special designation would be better for med school though. I'm definitely not doing Vagelos because it sounds way too hard. Also would going to Penn be helpful for getting into the Penn med school. I know Penn is very preprofessional which would be good for helping me stay on track in achieving my career goals.</p>

<p>Brown:</p>

<p>I think Brown might be the the easiest of these colleges in terms of getting the highest GPA because I could choose only the courses that interest me, which I think is a great idea, but I'm not sure how helpful this would be in comparison with going to Princeton but getting a lower GPA. I know Brown is the least cut-throat/competitive of the schools which is a plus, but would it be worth sacrificing a Princeton degree?</p>

<p>So that's basically my thought process right now. Sorry for such a long post. Obviously it's after May 1st but I have asked for a week-long extension. I might go to Princeton, but I'm not sure if it would be better to go to Columbia, Penn or Brown where there's a hospital close by to work at. However these three schools have around 80% accepted to med school, but are students discouraged from applying in Junior year like at Princeton? Also I think Princeton is the only school that compares in prestige to Harvard, which is where I applied early/wanted to go. Do you think I'm missing out because I didn't get into Harvard or Yale, which are the other two most prestigious colleges but also have hospitals close by to work at?</p>

<p>My stats:
SAT: 790 Reading, 800 Math, 800 Writing
SAT II: 800 Bio, 800 Chem, 800 Math II
GPA: 3.95 unweighted with a heavy courseload
AP: 5 in Bio, 5 in Chem, 5 in Calc, 5 in French
Rank: Top 5%
Major Awards: AP Scholar, National Merit Semifinalist, Presidential Scholar Candidate, USABO Semifinalist, AIME qualifier
School type: Magnet Public School
Asian Female</p>

<p>Ok thanks please respond. Sorry for writing so much. Basically I probably will go to Princeton but wanted to know if you think I would be making a mistake/if any other colleges are offering me better opportunities that would allow me to get into a better med school in the future. </p>

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<p>bump</p>

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<p>Posted an answer on the Brown thread.</p>

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<p>Go to princeton</p>

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<p>Go to the school at which you think you’d be happiest, and would best thrive both academically and socially. All four of these are phenomenal schools, and will get you anywhere you want to go if do well there.</p>

<p>And don’t be overly concerned with the relative prestige of these four schools. Among those in the know, including medical school admissions committees, they are all prestigious, and only high school students really attempt to parse the prestige of these and other top schools. Believe me when I say, based on decades of adult life in the professional world, that most folks don’t distinguish among these schools on the granular level that (usually) high school students tend to do here on CC.</p>

<p>Again, if you thrive at any one of these fantastic schools, you’ll do well thereafter. So go with your (well informed) gut and pick the one at which you think you’ll be happiest.</p>

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<p>I think you are way too concerned about medical school admissions an your GPA right now. There is a large possibility you won’t be premed this time in two years or even next year. Also you should want to take classes to learn not just get a high GPA. If you just focus on preserving your GPA, you might regret not getting a higher quality education later on.</p>

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<p>I can’t believe you got an extension at all 4 schools! Couldn’t you narrow down any of them? You can’t go wrong with these choices and if you all want med school after a few years in college (so many students change their minds) then you should be well - positioned coming from any of the four. You should pick the school where your gut tells you that you’ll be happiest. If you’re happy and comfortable you will thrive at the school you picked. </p>

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<p>bimp</p>

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<p>Does anyone know anything specifically about how good the University Scholars Program/John Jay Scholars Program are?</p>

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<p>I was invited to and decided to apply to the University Scholars program. It seems like a good deal-you get a separate research “mentor” that is in your field and can help you get connections/start research, and one of the biggest perks is easier funding. I think UScholars also get more money for summer research than other students. Just a caveat-the deadline for submitting your application may have already passed (I think it was May 2nd?). Because of your situation they might allow you more time, but I’d ask before you decided to commit to Penn if the UScholars program is a deciding factor. It’s apparently much harder to get into it if you weren’t invited as a prefrosh.</p>

<p>For premed, Penn has the med school right on campus, as well as several other hospitals in the nearby area. Combined with the preprofessional environment, it is one of the reasons I decided to go there. </p>

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<p>What’s the date to decide? </p>

<p>I think they are all great schools to choose and that you really can’t go wrong with any of them unless you just personally dislike one choice because you hate the weather or campus for whatever reasons. I think you have very strong odds of getting into medical school if you do well in any of these programs.</p>

<p>That said, I think you should consider instead what you like and dislike about each school/campus - you have very urban to very suburban to rural. Columbia is a walled fortress in an ultra urban 24/7 extremely diverse city. Penn is an urban, socially competent Ivy in a Goldilocks setting - not too hot, not too cold in any way = just right in many ways. Princeton is very suburban, upper crusty, away from the hustle but very easy access by train to it all. Brown - I’ve never spent any time there so no comment.</p>

<p>You’re young and goal driven - any of these schools can help you achieve your goal. I think you should figure out where you will enjoy achieving them the most now.</p>

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<p>As a premed at Penn, go to Brown and don’t look back. </p>

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<p>I don’t agree with the above post at all.
If you are willing to for go the better biomedical research opportunities and access to the medical school at Penn (Penn’s medical school is much better than Brown’s) just because Brown has more grade inflation, I think that is a big mistake. Unfortunately a lot of premeds have this attitude which I don’t understand having doctors in my immediate and extended family. Do you think it’s going to get any easier in medical school? How about residency? Rather than try to manipulate your GPA, just focus on learning and developing a good work ethic.</p>

<p>Also there is a high probability that you may decide that you don’t want to go to med school in a year or two.</p>

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<p>Just because Penn’s medical school is better than Brown’s doesn’t discredit the fact that there are plenty of resources at Brown that provide any student with a high number of options. And I have never insinuated that grade inflation is an excuse to work less hard - every student in OP’s list of schools is intelligent and everyone MUST work hard to do well in classes, regardless of major.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, the medical school game is a game of numbers - your GPA will hurt you if it is too low, regardless of its relative inflation or deflation. Assuming miscellaneous qualifications being equal, 3.8 from Brown trumps a 3.6 from Penn, 100% guaranteed. Sure, Penn’s medical school is world class, but having 300 hours of research and publications at Perelman is no different from the similar numbers at Alpert.</p>

<p>And besides, everyone is competing for the A but they are all of or beyond OP’s calibur in terms of high school accomplishments and natural intelligence. Even your best will net a B or even worse, a C.</p>

<p>That said. If you do decide to attend Penn, I’m more than happy to give OP many pointers to help her succeed in this environment through class recommendations and research opportunities in Perelman + other Penn institutions. I’ve built many connections with several professors - some of whom are world renowned - and have obtained experiences relevant to her interests.</p>

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<p>I also suggest that you reconsider being against the gap year option. I know that everyone has different preferences, but I have yet to meet a single person who has regretted a gap year and this is due to many reasons. Ultimately I think you will decide if this decision is right for you, however.</p>

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<p>Wait I thought I would be smarter than at least some people… freaking out</p>

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<p>@plzhelpme, that’s actually a very interesting thing you brought up. I have developed a pretty strong opinion on it after being here for four years. When people say everyone is smart at Penn, I cringe a bit because it’s just not true. Yes there are a ton of incredibly brilliant students here, but there are also a fair amount who are mediocre or less than mediocre. This is because the college admissions process is fundamentally flawed and makes some decisions that don’t turn out to be very good ones. There are so many superfluous and shallow factors in admissions which I honestly think have no relation to a student’s potential at a school like Penn. Even a school like Harvard, MIT, or Yale has many students who are underwhelming even though they honestly believe they are the “best and the brightest”, a phrase I hate.
That being said it is very tough to determine how you will stand among the student body until you have started college.</p>

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<p>Wherever the OP goes, she is going to need – and she is going to have, regardless of need – serious attitude readjustment. She needs it, because her obsession with GPA, her lack of confidence in her own abilities, her shocking lack of perspective (is a gap year after college that important?), and her failure to do even modest research to learn answers that would be important to her analysis (how colleges determine medical school acceptance percentage – hint, it includes most alumni – and how many Brown students apply to medical school the year after graduating) all mark her as someone who could be headed for a crash landing in college if she doesn’t get her head screwed on straight. It will happen anyway because there is some major immaturity in her posts, and time cures that pretty well, especially in one’s late teens and early 20s.</p>

<p>45 Percenter’s advice is dead on, and I hope the OP took it.</p>

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<p>Well that’s very rude of you JHS. Obviously I’m doing my on research but I still am asking the questions I want answers to. I am not obsessed with GPA, I just think it’s important for med school, and I definitely do not want to waste a year of my life during a gap year. </p>

<p>I think you fail to see that I am mature because I am trying to plan out my entire life now instead of just “going with the flow” and ending up not getting into med school and having some dead end job. If you don’t like the qualifications people need to work hard and plan for to get into top med schools then you can go fix the entire system yourself. Have fun.</p>

<p>Your post was basically incredibly unhelpful. Everybody else I appreciate your advice. Seriously some people just type for the heck of it did you even think about what you were saying or you just wanted to be impolite?</p>

<p>I suggest you go be mean and delusional elsewhere.</p>

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<p>While it is good to have a long term plan, you need to allow yourself some flexibility if you want to be successful. I went to a lunch with Roy Vagelos a little while ago and he talked about how he himself had a very unconventional career. He did a lot of different things and made a lot of changes based on what he felt he excelled at and what felt right at the time. This is what made him into what he is today. </p>

<p>Being successful involves being able to have the self awareness and intuition to steer yourself in the right direction and overcome obstacles in your way. Let’s say you take orgo and find out that you really cannot stand it or even get a bad grade in it. While it may seem like it is the end of the world at the time, if you take the time to reevaluate your priorities, you might discover you are actually much better at something else. Maybe you learn that you actually want to go to law school and pursue healthcare law instead of being a doctor. Or maybe you still really do want to be a doctor and this motivates you to go back and do even better than you thought you could before.</p>