Deciding between Princeton and Duke. Better athletic resources at Duke, Duke lacrosse team is better. Wondering about academic support for athletes between the two and social scene.
You’re deciding or they are? Are you being recruited by either? Need more info to offer much help, but to answer your question on support - Duke will have far, far better academic support for athletes.
Depends. At some ivies, you can play a sport AND pick your desired major. Your academic advisors there are also completely independent of your coaches/athletic staff. You will receive great academic support, but it is the same support offered to all students, not just athletes.
When my son considered some schools (strong academics and sporting programs), he felt like the athletic staff was controlling more strings. Without a doubt, the athletic facilities, gear, individual tutors, etc were incredible. However, he didn’t like being told that he “shouldn’t” study engineering. This level of influence can vary by sport at certain schools. I recommend looking at the majors of the rostered players.
I’m not sure its a matter of influence as much as a matter of practicality. Practices and games are at certain times and if they interfere with science/engineering labs then that is the source of your discouragement for certain majors. I’ve never met a coach who cared one bit what the kid majored in as long as it didn’t interfere with said coach’s ability to get what he/she needed from the student athletically. That assumes the kid can keep his/her grades up in their chosen major as program GPA matters to the coach as well. I view independence of the academic advisors from the athletic coach as a significant negative. The two parties working together are often the best way to get the most from each player as a student.
Academic support for athletes and social life would both be better at Duke, not to mention better weather. Mild southern winters means a lot more practice time during the school year.
^Agreed that dedicated academic support for athletes will be better at Duke. Also agree that social life is probably more “dynamic” at Duke than Princeton. Big time ACC sports, too!
Per the great point about labs conflicting with team practices and therefore dictating class selection and choices of major, it seems worth noting that Princeton policy does not allow classes to be scheduled from 4:30p – 7:30p, Monday through Friday, to support student participation in athletics and other extracurricular activities. In other words, practices should not conflict with classes or labs (conflicts may still occur for games however). There are plenty of student athletes who study sciences and engineering, labs and all, at Princeton.
Travel is likely far more significant at Duke. Longer season (and practices) too.
Academic support is the same for all students at Princeton. Professors understand extracurricular commitments and work with students who communicate ahead of time. There is a tutoring center for all students and established office hours for support. That said, office hours are often during practice/workout times and it can take a concerted effort to coordinate a mutually agreeable time. Access to and connections with professors at Princeton is strong. However, grade deflation and curriculum difficulty is still alive and well at Princeton. Some courses better reward students’ reflective work than others, but as a comparison and based on informal observations of our many friends’ children at HYStanfordDukeBrown, students at these other schools are much much better rewarded for their diligent efforts.
We also know a few student-athletes at Duke. Balancing a sport and good grades is often difficult and stressful, but they are coming out with much higher GPA’s than Princeton. Our friends’ HY students work with extremely difficult curriculum as well, and are also rewarded with high GPAs. Our friends’ S and B children work with challenging curriculum and are highly rewarded, also, the difference is that the stress is less at these schools because of the schools’ encouragement of trying different classes and extracurriculars and allowing for a way to not have it impact the GPA.
Socially, my friends’ student athletes’ friend group are limited to their sport at S,B, and Duke. Some of it has to do with prioritizing school work and sport and having different schedules than other groups when they socialize. At Princeton, the athletes room assignments are integrated with all students. The upside of that is my student athlete has friends from across all groups and across all sports. As well, the eating clubs are coed, there are Greek organizations for single gender socializing and the housing system allows for a four year community commitment to establish a friend base. Or students can go independent.
I personally think finances are first and foremost to be considered. Princeton’s aid package is the best if you fit in the pocket, but Duke can offer athletic money. If the money is relatively equal and the major of interest is similar, then it comes down to fit on the team, fit with the coach, and fit of the surroundings (access to NYC and Phil. has been quite fun for my Princeton student when it does occur). And then, if you can’t play your sport, can you see yourself happy at the school. Along with that, what other extracurriculars could you see yourself participating with at the school. If you absolutely love women’s basketball, then Princeton. If you love men’s basketball, then Duke.
My son just graduated from Princeton as a varsity athlete/BSE concentrator. Princeton has incredible academic support for ALL students, not just their athletes. Tutoring is free and available to all students upon request, and study halls are open to everyone. Professors tend to bend over backward to help a student who requests it so while office hours may be a consideration, other meetings can be arranged with profs as well outside of those hours.
I think a stronger consideration is which school provides the best atmosphere for development of the student. Unless the athlete is considering a professional career as an athlete, it is important to put an emphasis on academics and the learning environment. I do agree that the marking scheme is still rigorous at Princeton after the end of grade deflation, however the student has to determine for him/her self whether it will challenge or discourage the student to be pushed to achieve at a higher level.
In terms of social scene, I have yet to hear a Princeton student complain there is not enough to do. With NYC and Philly an hour away and multiple activities, clubs etc on campus it’s hard to be bored. However there is admittedly little to no bar scene in the Princeton area.