<p>My daughter got accepted in U Chicago with a merit-scholarship (; not huge amount though). She will try to get the almost-impossible merit scholarship from Duke. And she applied to emory scholar, too. :)</p>
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<p>There are a couple things wrong with this.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>You don’t need to be a star at Princeton to be successful in job recruiting or grad schools. Quite the opposite, actually.</p></li>
<li><p>The Robertson Scholarship isn’t that world renowned to where it would give you more cachet than a Princeton degree, just saying.</p></li>
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<p>Congratulations! What an opportunity to have a choice like this. As one of the parents above said, you have won the lottery twice. </p>
<p>Clearly your mind was made to take Princeton until this opportunity came out of the blue.
You say you are international. Is there any chance you can get to NC so you can see how it suits you? It sounds like you do not like the big urban campus (Columbia/Penn). </p>
<p>Secondly, from the way you phrase it, it sounds like UNC will be your primary and Duke your sister school. Is that right or are you being given your choice? You get to spend 7 semesters on your primary campus and one semester living at the sister school. This would make a difference in the decision to me. You want Duke as your primary.</p>
<p>Princeton is already at the top of the rankings. In my opinion, Duke will continue to rise in them as a function of time. </p>
<p>One key point of Robertson is to be ambassadors between the two schools. If you want to be a diplomat why not start now learning how to bridge gaps? It is not the Hatfields & McCoys but there are some differences as well as a giant vein of mutual respect. Pretty interesting opportunity for a diplomat. </p>
<p>Robertson does some team building via Service. As an international student, you may enjoy learning more about the USA this way and giving back. </p>
<p>Neither school is a destination any longer. Rather they are portals to a worldwide educational opportunity. Both will rock your world.</p>
<p>I can’t tell you how to decide. There is no wrong choice, but I would certainly give Robertson a full vetting and equal consideration. Congrats and good luck!!</p>
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<p>You raise good points, but he would likely follow Woody Woo at Princeton which would provide him with all of that and more.</p>
<p>Thank you for your responses! They have been incredibly useful.</p>
<p>To update you, I was also admitted into Trinity College, Cambridge the other day to read Politics and International Relations. Although I won’t be taking it, for some reason it makes me want to take Princeton up more? I think it’s the name prestige, I live in the UK and almost anybody who is vaguely successful seems to have come from Oxbridge. It’s hard to know whether these people are successful because they’re the type of intelligent, hard working student who went to Oxbridge, or because of the weight of the name and the connections.</p>
<p>At the moment, I’m still no more certain of where I think is best for me. I think Duke Robertson would be a much better experience socially (in that you’ve got a close network of scholars) and environmentally, in that you can opportunities given to you every summer and during the term year. I feel I would thrive under this ‘white glove treatment’. On the other hand I still feel like it’s a huge risk. I want to return to Europe when I finish my studies, and Princeton has far greater name recognition in the Europe than Duke, in my experience. Whilst I feel this is less of a problem in the US, I feel like perhaps I wouldn’t fully benefit from the Robertson’s alumni network if I am abroad.</p>
<p>I am also considering Grad school, maybe public policy or be a Fulbright or Rhodes or Mitchell scholar or something similar.</p>
<p>Another concern of mine is that my worries about the Eating Club scene at Princeton are nothing in comparison to the frat culture at Duke? </p>
<p>Basically, I feel there’s a lot of security for me at Duke, but at the same time, all of the opportunities are likewise there at Princeton, it just requires a little more ‘get up and go’. I’m worried I underestimate the intensity of the atmosphere there though, it’s hard to gauge how easy it is.</p>
<p>Another thing is, everyone tells me how lots of people turn down HYPS for merit scholarships at places like Duke, UNC, UVA etc. but I feel a majority of those people are those who would be paying full tuition at the ivies. On closer inspection, my Princeton Financial Aid is basically the same as that at Duke. So really I’m just comparing ‘everything else’. </p>
<p>Thanks again :)</p>
<p>Another thing I was thinking about…The scholarship has only been running for 10 years, just wondering if anyone on here knows any alumni? I was looking at the A.B. Duke Scholarship and they have disproportionately huge numbers of Rhodes Scholars, Fulbrights etc. Whilst I haven’t found any stats on Robertsons. A lot of those I’ve found (online stalking on Linkedin) tend to be in consultancy/finance jobs (most likely not the path I will be following). I suppose a majority of Princeton students similarly follow such paths though? I don’t know what I want to do, but I want to do something exciting and well paid, and the career prospects of both Princeton and Duke/Scholarship are hard to find out online.</p>
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While not quite as good as Princeton, Duke is definitely on par with the 8 Ivies in whatever way you measure a university. Duke is more selective than Cornell and slightly more so than Penn. Duke’s total endowment is larger than Brown, Cornell, and Dartmouth while its endowment per student is bigger than Brown, Columbia, Cornell, and Penn. Duke’s faculty is clearly stronger than Brown and Dartmouth while being on par with Cornell and Penn. Duke is rated higher in undergraduate teaching than all Ivies besides Princeton and Yale, even Harvard.</p>
<p>Your opportunities will not be limited by attending one elite university over another. It is up to the individual to take full advantage of what each institution offers. Someone at Duke who performs better academically in a given subject and forges a closer relationship with professors in that department than a similar student at Princeton will do better in graduate school admissions and vice versa.</p>
<p>Here is a link to the careers of Woodrow Wilson alumni: [Alumni</a> Profiles | Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs](<a href=“http://wws.princeton.edu/alumni/alumni-profiles]Alumni”>http://wws.princeton.edu/alumni/alumni-profiles) and notes about recent graduates: [Classnotes</a> | Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs](<a href=“http://wws.princeton.edu/alumni/giving-back/share-your-story/classnotes]Classnotes”>http://wws.princeton.edu/alumni/giving-back/share-your-story/classnotes) </p>
<p>Princeton has active alumni associations on every continent except Antarctica. Here is a link to the Princeton Association UK: [About</a> Us](<a href=“http://www.princeton.org.uk/about/index.php]About”>http://www.princeton.org.uk/about/index.php) </p>
<p>If you want the best of both Princeton and Oxford you should learn about the agreement that reserves five places each year at Worcester for Princeton undergraduates. [University</a> of Oxford, Worcester College<em>-</em>Office of International Programs](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/oip/sap/programs/academic_year/princeton_affiliated/worcester/]University”>http://www.princeton.edu/oip/sap/programs/academic_year/princeton_affiliated/worcester/) </p>
<p>Here are the profiles of a few WWS students that have done their graduate work in the UK. WWS students have been successful in winning Rhodes Scholarships and other prestigious scholarships to study in Great Britain. Kate Buzicky '02 was an ROTC cadet that speaks Spanish, Portuguese, Japanese and Arabic. She studied Economic and Social history at Oxford and earned her law degree from Harvard. She is currently serving as a prosecutor for the 1st Calvary Division. Scott Moore '08 earned certificates in environmental studies and Chinese language and culture and plans to study environmental policy at Oxford on a Rhodes Scholarship. Sarah Vander Ploeg 08 won the Marshall scholarship to study at Londons Royal College of Music to become a professional opera singer. Henry Barmeier 10, a Udall Scholar earned certificates in environmental studies and Spanish and plans to receive a masters degree in nature, society and environmental policy at Oxford on a Rhodes Scholarhip. Michael Shih 09 will be a Marshall scholar planning to obtain a masters degree in international relations at Cambridge in the first year and studying for a masters degree in modern Chinese studies at Oxford in the second; Michael Solis 07 will be a Mitchell scholar in Ireland and will study international human rights law. Jess Lanney 10,who is pursuing a certificate in urban studies in the WWS, said she will use the Marshall scholarship to complete two one-year masters programs at the London School of Economics: one in social policy and planning and another in urban and regional planning. Josh Grehan’10 won a Sachs scholarship to pursue postgraduate studies in social policy at Worcester College at the University of Oxford. Grehan’s thesis research is to support his hypothesis that skateboard parks can help reduce crime by providing constructive outlets for youngsters. Mark Jia 10 was a Wilson School major and earned a certificate in East Asian studies. He is currently working at the China Foreign Affairs University in Beijing as a Princeton-in-Asia fellow, where he teaches about American politics and constitutional history. Jia hopes to pursue a M.Sc. in politics on his Rhodes Scholarship. Vander Ploeg '08 a WWS major will study music at the Royal College of Music on a Marshall Scholarship. Oliver Palmer 11, a WWS major won a Carnegie fellowship to study China. Since he is fluent in Chinese he obtained an internship after his sophomore year at the State Department, working in the political section of the U.S. Embassy in Beijing. Haley White '12 has been awarded a 2011 Truman Scholarship, which provides up to $30,000 for graduate study. Believing that food insecurity is one of the most pressing problems facing society, White plans to use her Truman Scholarship to pursue a career in agricultural development. She has explored that interest through several activities, including developing a project for which she lived with subsistence farmers in Central America, funded by a Dale Summer Award from the University. In 2011 Miriam Rosenbaum '12 was one of four Princeton students and one of three women Princeton students to be awarded a Rhodes Scholarship. Rosenbaum will complete the master’s degree in public health at Oxford and then pursue a master’s degree in public affairs at Princeton through the SINSI program. Rosenbaum wrote in her Rhodes application that “my passion lies in healthcare, and I plan to be an advocate for marginalized populations.” In 2011 15 Princeton students and alumni won Fulbright scholarships and five Marshall scholarships. Daniel Gastfriend 13 a WWS concentrator was awarded a $30,000 Truman Scholarship to pursue a graduate degrees in public service field. Daniel, a member of the Footnotes a cappella group, plans on working to reduce poverty in sub-Saharan Africa. Jake Nebel 13, a philosophy major with a certificate in Values and Public Life won a Marshall scholarship to study at at the University of Oxford. During his freshman spring, Nebel took a graduate school seminar and wrote a paper for that course, called Protection against WMDs, which was published in the Journal of Peace Education. With bioethics professor Peter Singer’s guidance, Nebel also published a paper he wrote during his sophomore year for Singer’s graduate seminar in the Journal of Ethics and Social Philosophy. Nebel will consider attending law school after Oxford. In 2013 15 graduating seniors were awarded Fulbright scholarships.</p>
<p>Like Princeton, Duke too has had a history of producing many successful fellowship winners. Since 1989, Duke has produced 22 Rhodes Scholars, 14 Marshall Scholars, 68 Goldwater Scholars, 5 Mitchell Scholars, and 13 Churchill Scholars.</p>
<p>The postgraduate scholarship however that most directly pertains to Leadership and Public Service is the Truman Scholarship and Duke to date has produced 43, more than any American institution besides Stanford, Harvard, and Yale.
<a href=“http://www.adminplan.northwestern.edu/ir/data-book/v45/4.05-truman-scholars-year-peer-group.pdf[/url]”>http://www.adminplan.northwestern.edu/ir/data-book/v45/4.05-truman-scholars-year-peer-group.pdf</a></p>
<p>Duke alums have won 139 Fullbright grants in the last decade trailing only Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cornell, Northwestern, Columbia, and UChicago among selective private schools. It should be noted that all of these schools besides Harvard, Yale, and Chicago have a higher enrollment than Duke.</p>
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<p>This advice is spot on. You will have great opportunities whatever you decide, so don’t over-stress about this choice. </p>
<p>This seems to come up every year. Here’s another thread about nearly full aid at Princeton vs. Robertson, where the poster chose Duke in the end (he was interested in engineering): <a href=“Duke Robertson vs Nearly Full Ride Princeton - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/897859-duke-robertson-vs-nearly-full-ride-princeton-p1.html</a></p>
<p>There are certainly cases where I think everyone would agree it makes sense to chose a scholarship for a cohort experience over a somewhat more highly regarded individual school – e.g., the Mitchell Scholarship at Trinity College in Ireland over Oxford, even if the financial cost is the same. The Mitchell isn’t very well known among the general public, but it provides you with an exceptional cohort and carries weight in certain circles.</p>
<p>A friend of mine chose the Robertson (based at UNC) over Yale. He applied the same rationale to his own decision. Now, the Robertson isn’t the same thing as the Mitchell (or the Marshall, or the Rhodes…) but he thought the Robertson would provide him a more interesting set of intellectual, social, and professional experiences that would would better position him for life after college. That is, he thought the experiences and connections the Robertson provides would allow him to “stand out” more to employers and graduate schools than being an “ordinary” student at Yale competing for access to resources.</p>
<p>If there were a large financial difference, this would be an easier choice. As it stands, I wish you could visit North Carolina to help make a final decision. You’ll have an incredible college experience either way.</p>
<p>The assumption of some on this thread is that this is a choice only between Princeton and Duke. However, remember that UNC is also a very good option for you. Because this thread is not as active as the one in the Parents Forum, I will post the rest of my comments there.</p>
<p>Congratulations on all these great opportunities! Before I give my comments, I do want to give my specific background. I am currently a Robertson Scholar at UNC. My choice was between Dartmouth and the Robertson. Given that Dartmouth gave me no money, the Robertson was the obvious choice. I’m very close friends with Duke Robertson Scholars and Princeton students. I would largely agree with all of your disadvantages and advantages that you point out about the Robertson program. I’ll try to recognize my own bias and do my best to recommend accordingly. Also, I do not know much about Cambridge, so I will just not open that can of worms.</p>
<p>I do want to caution on a few things. First, consulting and investment banking are very common for both Princeton graduates and Robertson Scholars. That is less a symptom of each program, but rather the incentive graduates have to make a great deal of money. The Big Three management consulting firms recruit at all three institutions. Second, the Robertson is a young scholarship program. It’s name is well-recognized, but the amount of graduate merit scholars it has produced is low. Why? Because the number of Robertson scholars that have graduated is much lower than the number of Duke-AB or Princeton graduates. So judging the accomplishments of alumni is a hard gauge to judging these institutions. Third, as another comment articulated, these programs are not destinations. In your specific situation, I would be a firm believer that it’s all about what you do, not where you go.</p>
<p>I want to heavily emphasize that the biggest weighing factor is where you would be most happy. I highly recommend visiting these campuses before making your decision. See which you enjoy as far as the environment, people, and discussions are concerned. Any factors of that nature are more important than I can describe. I know this is an unsatisfying answer to many prospective college first-years. When I was in your shoes, I would have been unsatisfied with this response. Furthering a start to success with a better name, better connections, or more recognition is important, but alas, a wash when it comes to these great opportunities. I had friends turn down Harvard for Duke. I had friends turn down Duke for Harvard. In the end, the difference between Princeton and the Robertson comes in one dimension: which makes you so crazy you never want to leave?</p>
<p>These days, graduate school is the name that matters so much more. Undergraduate is important in getting into a good graduate school, but again, this centers on what you do, rather than where you go. Both institutions will give you great opportunities to do what you want to do. There is no doubt. The difference is what environment of greater contentment will foster these accomplishments. Talking to alumni or visiting in-person are the best ways to do this. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions about the Robertson that Google cannot solve. I can even put you in touch with other Brits that are currently Robertsons and that faced similar decisions. Or you may have decided already. Either way, best wishes.</p>
<p>Does the same advice given here apply for an applicant who got a Commitment Scholarship at Cornell and was admitted to Princeton? I applied for Engineering. </p>
<p>Not sure about that specific scholarship at cornell, but it has a better engineering program than princeton, despite the latter’s obvious prestige. Even without the scholarship, I’d give cornell engineering a hard look.</p>
<p>Both are awesome opportunities. I would agree with MikeNY5 regarding the engineering comment. I would caution, however, that Cornell is not an environment for everyone. I know more than one person who took it without checking out the atmosphere and were miserable. </p>
<p>Additionally, consider whether engineering is something you definitely want to do or something that “makes sense” with what you did in high school. It would be not so fun to be stuck somewhere you don’t like if you decide to drop engineering. </p>
<p>The scholarship is called Meinig. To be honest, I’m not sure about engineering anymore, I’m considering Physics/Math/Philosophy, more liberal arts types majors. That’s something that draws me to Princeton because they would allow me to change majors easily, but I feel like I can’t underestimate the benefits of being a “scholar” at a place like Cornell. I did visit the school and I really liked the students, although I haven’t visited Princeton yet.</p>
<p>For sure. Again, it all comes down to environment. “Scholar” at a place like Cornell is great! Definitely hard to weigh whether being a “scholar” at Cornell or a Princeton student yields more benefits. I would see how the Princeton visit goes, and go from there. I know friends that fall in love and others that are turned off.</p>
<p>If you are not certain about engineering (or even if you are), I think that Princeton offers an extraordinary range of undergraduate opportunities. The academic departments are incredibly strong, the professors are wonderful and accessible, there are numerous opportunities for funding for whatever project/program you might be interested in and the alumni support/mentoring is strong. And, as a mid-sized school with a relatively small graduate program, Princeton focuses on undergraduate education to a greater extent than many other schools.</p>
<p>I looked at some of the Meinig opportunities, and many of them seem to be available to all students at Princeton. For example, Meinig replaces up to $4000 in need-based loans with grants. Princeton’s financial aid is all grants anyway. Meinig offers up to $3500 for students to participate in internships/summer programs. At Princeton, there are many many opportunities to receive funding for such programs. And, as I’ve mentioned before, the Princeton alumni base is among the most fervent in the country and frequently offers mentoring/support and even jobs to graduates.</p>
<p>Obviously, you need to visit Princeton to see what you think, but I don’t think you would ever regret a decision to attend Princeton</p>
<p>I agree with @midatlmom. If you’re undecided about engineering, there is only a small handful of major universities (HYS)-- excluding LACs-- that can match Princeton’s prowess in the liberal arts. If that’s the case, princeton should be pretty tough to turn down. Fantastic choices, though. Congrats and good luck with your decision!</p>
<p>It’s not hard to transfer out of engineering at Cornell, either, and Cornell also has wonderful other offerings. But the feel of both universities is really, really different. Cornell has more undergraduates than Princeton has students of any variety. I think the Princeton answer to the “scholar” issue is that everyone at Princeton feels like a “scholar,” special. And there’s a good deal of truth to that. The resources available to every student at Princeton most likely exceed what the Meinig offers, as midatlmom points out.</p>