Princeton vs Stanford

I am currently very undecided between Stanford and Princeton. I plan to study history, french, and possibly look into east asian studies. I have visited both campuses (a week for Princeton / about three weeks for Stanford) and am completely at a loss as to what I should decide. I do not really see or feel myself at one school over the other, when I was there, it felt relatively the same. Finances are not a concern. Anyway, I am wondering what you all think would be the best course of action at this point.

Here were my general impressions of both schools:

Stanford:

  • friendly people,
  • great library / rare books collection,
  • humanities / history departments seem unappreciated when compared to Engineering or the Sciences
  • many people have talked of a “techie / fuzzy” divide that I am somewhat indifferent too (I go to a tech high school and am used to dealing with people questioning the practicality of my interests)
  • the quarter system does not seem to fit what I particularly would like to do / seems to really rush through material that I would like more time to delve into
  • slight grade inflation
  • good food – IN N OUT, Mexican, Japanese, etc.
  • good french department with supporting french system – the french house is an academic housing unit for sophomores to seniors
  • I know more people who are currently at Stanford and even some professors I have worked with in the past (not sure how I feel about this)
  • I live in California, and the respect that a Stanford degree carries here is impressive / not sure how it is elsewhere
  • a very supportive network that seems to wants to see students like me thrive
  • laid back attitude (not sure if I would get lazy and start goofing off…)
  • not really a surrounding town, because the campus is huge and is its own city
  • more class spirit

Princeton:

  • people were reserved (I was only there for a week / people who were there for longer seemed to have better connections)
  • decent library
  • arguably a better history department with fewer courses, but more intense study
  • semester system
  • academic calendar is weird with having finals after winter break (not sure how I feel about that)
  • amazing architecture and academic atmosphere
  • surrounding town is nice and very historic (Princeton battlefield is very close, Palmer Square and Nassau St. are very aesthetically pleasing)
  • food in the town is pretty bad (except for PJs) / University food is good
  • more emphasis on humanities / liberal arts / political science / history / economics at Princeton
  • students seemed to self-sort themselves into groups, extremely quickly too (I felt like a lot of people were being automatically judged by how they presented themselves)
  • low crime late (I would walk around campus, and notice that people would literally leave their bikes unlocked and just sort of leave them outside / overnight )
  • residential college system seems supportive
  • undergraduate focus is a nice benefit (not sure how this compares with Stanford)
  • I feel like people are more competitive and show themselves as very serious with their studying (I feel like this would influence me to study harder too)
  • I have heard that despite ending grade deflation, their is still a legacy of it that lingers around
  • not entirely sure how I feel about Junior papers / but I would look forward to the Senior thesis
  • New Jersey is not very picturesque / but Princeton is!
  • Princeton seems to be having a diversity issue (their President just recommended that Class of 2019 read a book on stereotypes)
  • a quieter atmosphere

I am really stuck on this. Please let me know how you believe I should proceed with making my decision. I appreciate any feedback in advance.

I’d go to Princeton because it’s stronger in the social sciences you will be studying. I have friends who went to each and your observations about the STEM focus at Stanford are correct.

@SeattleTW: Can you provide documentation concerning your assertion re Princeton’s social sciences advantage? I don’t doubt you, but I’d like to learn more.

@Shenandoah: Obviously, both are truly superb, wonderful, most-selective schools, with earned and essentially peerless international stature. First, CONGRATULATIONS on these two deserved, exceptional acceptances. Second, on which coast would you currently suspect you’d like to make your life? Unquestionably, both universities are extremely strong nationally (and globally), however, if you have a clear geographic preference, that might be worth including in your decision metrics.

You should consult with Antonius Pius:

https://www.random.org/coins/?num=1&cur=40-antique.antonius-pius

The quarter system typically means that you end up taking more courses, but each one is “smaller”. For example, a year long course would be broken up into three 10-week quarter courses versus two 15-week semester courses. For most students, the advantages and disadvantages are minor. Undecided students may find the quarter system slightly favorable, due to being able to sample more different (“smaller”) courses and subjects in the first year. Athletes may find one or the other more favorable in terms of percentage of the academic year overlapping with the sport season and its time commitments.

I recommend doing more research into this. I couldn’t disagree more.

The semester and quarter systems are absolutely very different animals. While a year-long sequence will indeed be the same, most courses do not fall into that category. The majority of quarter system classes are more rushed and abbreviated versions of their semester system counterparts. Note that for year-long sequences, you’ll also have an extra set of midterms and finals (and/or final papers) in the quarter system.

Top Tier:

My comment was based on my experience speaking with former classmates from Princeton and Stanford at Michigan Law School, as well as my own investigation of Stanford after being admitted as an undergrad decades ago (an entirely different story). I don’t have the time to look into stats but living on the West Coast, that’s my perception. Princeton is tops in philosophy, for example, and of the 20 or so graduates I met in law school, they were smarter, along with the Yalies, than most of the rest of us.

Just pick which school to attend based on location. Where do you see yourself after college? Do you like warm Cali weather or the temperate climate that NJ offers? I would pick California, as it is whole lot more fun than most areas in NJ.

@SternBusiness
@TopTier
I have no preference for location, except maybe that the food is better in California than New Jersey (to me anyway)…I could see benefits in both experiencing a new environment / culture (going back east) or staying with what I know.

A couple of Classic Japanese Literature classes that I took at Stanford were among the most fascinating classes I’ve ever taken, anywhere.

You don’t have to be concerned about whether Stanford’s humanities are top-notch. They are. Even though Stanford seems to be focused on technology these days, it hasn’t let its other programs degenerate.

You can’t go wrong with either school. I just wanted to discuss one issue you mentioned - diversity. Princeton does not have a particular diversity issue. However, as a Princeton alumna, one of the things I admire the most about Princeton is its desire to always become better and its willingness to engage in “self-reflection.” After the events in Ferguson, MO and Staten Island, NY, Princeton’s President issued a statement, indicating that racial injustice is still prevalent in our society and that he was forming a task force to investigate ways that Princeton could improve its policies regarding equity and inclusion on campus and also foster more discussion that would enhance public dialog in general about racial equality and diversity. Eisgruber’s recommendation that students read “Whistling Vivaldi: How Stereotypes Affect Us and What We Can Do,” was part of his attempt to foster a dialog about how stereotypes affect all of us.

@midatlmom thank you for your input, although I feel the issue is up for debate. Throughout this entire college process, which started in about June for me, I have been fortunate enough to talk with many very different Princeton alumni–one who was international, several who were minorities (by this I do not mean Asian or White), several who were upper class or white, and one who ended up dropping out. Each tells 1 of 2 stories. The first being that there was no issue with race, that in fact race relations were good because the university was accepting more minorities through affirmative action policies and less upper class / white males. This was typically held by the white men and women that I talked with. The other story being that Princeton students tended to self-segregate into social groups (fratty and preppy, nerdy, and minorities). The times that I have visited campus, to talking about two weeks, I came believing the first story (I live in one of the more diverse cities in California, and had always sort of ignored race, being white is considered being a minority in this city). So walking on campus, looking in the library, looking at the dining halls, the surrounding restaurants, I was shocked to see how few minority-white groups there were at Princeton. I saw one total. The rest were either all white, all white and Asian, or all minority. So the second time I visited, I made sure to talk with current students about it, whites and minorities. They both said a version of the same thing I had seen, “people tend to self-segregate here.” So maybe that was what I had seen, minorities self-segregating into groups because they felt left out or unwelcome. Even Michelle Obama in her Senior Thesis for Princeton wrote “Regardless of the circumstances under which I interact with Whites at Princeton, it often seems as if, to them, I will always be Black first and a student second” and that “I sometimes feel like a visitor on campus; as if I really don’t belong.” So I am unsure if Princeton’s President is truly responding to a national problem. From my perspective, he seems to be responding to a “Princeton problem.”

At either school, about 21% of entering first-year students are Asians.
At Stanford, about 6% of entering first-years are African American; at Princeton, AAs are about 8%.
At Stanford, about 16% of entering first-years are Hispanic/Latino; at Princeton, H/Ls are about 9%.

Overall, the percentage of URMs (Asian, AA, Hispanic) among entering 2014-15 first year students was about 43% at Stanford and about 38% at Princeton. Princeton gets a few more African Americans, Stanford (befitting its location) gets quite a few more Hispanics … but overall, the distribution of URMs is not too different.

You’re not likely to catch racism, or inoculate yourself against it, at either of these schools.
They are both bastions of modern, Western, liberal, secular, humanistic learning.
People at both schools are struggling with the same cultural baggage.

I read Obama’s thesis and it was a sad commentary of her experience and/or preoccupation with race. Self segregation might still be a problem at many top schools on the East Coast but I’ve never heard about or observed it on the West Coast. Even assuming that self segregation exists at Princeton, is that a valid reason not to go? And what’s your responsibility for changing it?

After spending time on both coasts, I think the West Coast is much cooler in this aspect, I’m agreeing with post #13.

Shenandoah - I do not mean to suggest that Princeton is perfect. However, self-segregation of minorities is a complicated issue, and one that is found on many many college campuses. I don’t pretend to know much about it, but I have read enough to conclude that a desire to spend time with people of the same ethnicity does not necessarily come about solely because students feel “left out or unwelcome.” An article about it in the Harvard Crimson (admittedly from 2007), suggested that it might also stem from a desire for community, comfort and support. http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/3/21/a-great-divide-high-school-according/

I believe that the Princeton student body is extremely diverse - as tk21769 has suggested, the difference between Stanford and Princeton in terms of diversity is largely due to a higher number of Hispanic students at Stanford, which is to a large extent due to its location in California. Having a child currently at Princeton, I know that his friends are definitely a diverse bunch, but having spoken to him about this issue, I know you are correct, that there is definitely self-segregation at the school. I just don’t necessarily agree with your conclusions about why it might happen and the extent of the problem. Moreover, I know that the University itself is a leader in trying to foster inclusion and diversity - I believe that this is an issue that you might find at many schools and I believe that Princeton is trying to be proactive about what tk21769 has rightly characterized as “cultural baggage” that we are struggling with as a nation.

In any event, good luck with your decision. There is no wrong answer here. My personal opinion is that college is a great time to “test your wings” and leave your own comfort zones, whether they be geographical or political or religious or cultural.

Have you been accepted to both of these colleges or are you trying to decide which one to apply to ?
If you have been accepted…do you want to end up on east coast or west coast?
If you are applying, apply to both and spend time worrying about a match school.

Princeton is definitely more stuffy, has more prestige very slightly than Stanford.

Food is good in most of NJ, but not that much reasonably priced near Princeton. Certain areas of NJ are not very nice (Trenton has some bad areas, let alone Camden and Newark), but other areas are very nice and you are near Philadelphia and New York.

Traffic is TERRIBLE near Princeton. Should not be much of an issue if you don’t plan to have a car on campus but be careful crossing streets.

I would choose Stanford over Princeton, based on my own preferences, even though in general I don’t like California. I know several people who were ruined by attending Princeton, that is, they were way too stressed while there (one dropped out due to a nervous breakdown) and never took their degree on to bigger and better things. Princeton tends to be much more on the theoretical than applications side.

Also, if you are from California, seems that it would be far easier to network in your home state, let alone travel. I just don’t think Princeton being an Ivy and Stanford not matters enough to leave your home state.

(And I know two people who were accepted to Princeton, Harvard, and Yale. One was accepted EA to Princeton and decided pretty quickly not to go, and is deciding between the two others. The other has no clue which to attend (he won an Intel prize apparently…). It is not an easy decision, but with Stanford in the mix, it changes things a bit not to just be selecting from Northeast schools.)

@rhandco thank you for your comment. I too have met two Princeton alumni who seemed to be “dead” after their experience their…one even dropped out and later went to Georgetown. Some of the freshmen I met were very jittery and seemed constantly nervous. What do you think causes it, academic rigor alone, slight grade deflation and its legacy, competitive atmosphere?

And you’ve lived in LA?! Self-segregation is most certainly alive and well in California. It’s arguably worse here at UCLA than at any other college I’ve ever experienced. Due to its large size and immense diversity, students can and do clump into groups of similar ethnic and religious backgrounds – much like the city itself.