<p>Gee, I always thought W&M had an excellent academic reputation.</p>
<p>You are correct. W&M indeed has a very strong academic reputation.</p>
<p>This idea that W&M’s best would be P’s worst is laughable at best and absurd at worst. Princeton is much more difficult statistically to be admitted but, trust me, the difference in the quality of students is not nearly as great as some would have you think. Go visit both again and have him decide. There are thousands of brilliant students who would kill to have his spot at W&M. If he decides to go there, support his decision and move on. Its his life. He will do fine wherever he is happy. Dont get caught up in the “prestige” racket. Its a sucker bet.</p>
<p>There’s a kid in my neighborhood who went to undergrad at W&M. She is now a fully funded doctoral student in Art History at Yale. Another kid who went to Harvard, and now a graduate student in computer science at our state flagship. As long as the kid makes a rational choice, she’d be fine – although in some cases it rips the parents off the instant gratification and the bragging rights :)</p>
<p>minimom</p>
<p>“Fit” is an enormous contributor to academic success. If your son somehow feels that Princeton doesn’t feel right his gut may be talking to him.</p>
<p>My son loved Yale, Dartmouth and Amherst but said he couldn’t see himself at Princeton when all the dust settled. Some of it was based on people he knew who were already there and some people he knew who were headed there. The whole eating club thing was a major turn off to him…having to be “chosen” to be good enough to eat with others (his words, not mine) and the fact that it really felt like the most privileged environment of any school he visited. He eventually withdrew apps or turned down acceptances to all of them to go to UNC as a Morehead Scholar. I know it initially took EAmom and me a while to get over not being able to put a Yale sticker in our cars’ rear windows but we got over it quickly when we saw how happy he was. </p>
<p>Give him time to weigh things and sort things out without any pressure. If he really feels that W&M is the right fit for him remember, he is the one going to school and is the only one who has to be happy.</p>
<p>There are a bunch of kids at W&M who turn down Ivy League offers. So if your kid chooses W&M, he won’t be alone.</p>
<p>I think you should visit W&M again (if at all possible). Maybe it just feels right?</p>
<p>Hm…perhaps the student fears being a small fish in a more intimidating pond? It’s pretty scary for a lot of students who’ve been superstars their whole life to know that there’s a 90% chance that they will no longer be in the top 10%.</p>
<p>Another possibility: we’re talking about a teenager. Maybe he is getting the sense that his parents want him to go to Princeton more than life itself, and he feels that preferring W&M is a way to assert his independence and get out from under the family thumb. I’ve seen many a student decide that she hates a college during a visit because Mom loved it so much.</p>
<p>I share a certain discomfort with the eating clubs, but on the other hand, W&M is ~1/3 Greek, and the Greek organizations are all selective; there’s no equivalent to the sign-in clubs at Princeton.</p>
<p>I stand by my statement that the parents should let him think all he wants, and even re-visit W&M if it’s that important to him.</p>
<p>I don’t love eating clubs either, and I spent four years at Princeton. That being said, I don’t think it should be a huge factor in anyone’s decision. I didn’t join a club and still loved my experience there. I also didn’t find that sign in clubs, at least, were terribly sinister institutions; one can have the club experience without ever going through bicker.</p>
<p>Princeton might have more of a veneer of WASP privilege than some of its peers, but it is just a veneer. I can’t imagine any student being unable to find a community for himself there. </p>
<p>Please PM me if you have any concerns - I graduated last year, so my information should still be helpful!</p>
<p>W&M is reknown in the VA area for its caliber of students. Many turn down UVA (only second to Berkeley for public universities) because they like the feel of W&M over UVA.</p>
<p>I grew up in the outskirts of Princeton, I know that campus and town like the back of my hand. I now live in VA. </p>
<p>We can all throw reasons why PRO-Princeton vs PRO-W&M. Does it really matter? NO! As a parent are you willing to spend the next 20-30 yrs having him at every opportunity to say “I wanted W&M, but YOU made me go to Princeton!”?</p>
<p>This is his life now, and honestly it almost feels like you think he is throwing away his life to attend W&M. You do know that TJ, the number 1 HS in the nation regularly sends many of their students there? W&M may be a state funded university, but so is Berkeley.</p>
<p>I would be all aboard with you if you said, the program he is entering at Princeton is number 1 in the world and W&M doesn’t even offer it, but I didn’t see that in your post. </p>
<p>I saw you state he thought it wasn’t an option for Princeton, maybe you should flip it and wonder this instead… he was appeasing you about Princeton and thought he had no chance so it was no harm or foul, just was doing the yeah, yeah, yeah for your benefit. Now he has a chance you are not realizing it was just words.</p>
<p>Our DS flipped his top choice in the end also, but in the end after playing devil’s advocate on why this over that, we felt comfortable knowing he chose what was BEST for him.</p>
<p>It is his life now and you will not be attending with him…listen to him, if he can give logical reasons why, and that might be as simple as the campus vibe, than respect his decision. College is more than academia. Many kids transfer/fail because they absolutely hate the school, how will you feel if he comes home in Dec and says I hate it there when you were the overriding decision regarding where he matriculated.</p>
<p>bulletandpima: Student wants to study art/art history. PU is close to NYC/Philly to visit museums/do internships etc, both schools offer study abroad programs, both schools offer club/intramural sports, singing groups, theater, although PU has a great art museum (over 72,000 pieces of art vs W&M’s 4,000+) on campus and McCarter theater (not part of PU - in town) offers a variety of performances throughout the year - don’t know about W&M. Main argument so far has been that since it’s Princeton, all his friends/teachers/relatives assume he’s going to Princeton. That is not a reason to NOT go - that’s being childish, immature and a bit bratty. I have NEVER said go to Princeton - but do wonder why he worked so hard all these years - wasn’t it to get into the best school possible?</p>
<p>I think it would be a lot easier to go to Princeton, then after a year, transfer somewhere else if he hated it - than it would to go somewhere else and try to transfer into Princeton!</p>
<p>Amen, Doctorb!</p>
<p>Maybe he is being Bratty or immature. Maybe he isn’t.</p>
<p>Princeton is not known as the best of the best for ART. W&M is a LAC. It is your child, and you know him the best. My only point is shouldn’t he decide? If your child has a 2350 SAT he is incredibly intelligent. Trust him.</p>
<p>Yes, he could transfer after a yr, but it still sounds like you are missing my point…do you want him to regret his decision even for a yr and be miserable? I was forced because of my folks “knowing better” than me to a specific college. I hated every second there and regretted it to this day. I may be placing my life into your scenario, but I am also speaking from experience. You might think that Princeton is the best and he will come to thank you, but what if he doesn’t? That is a heck of a price to pay.</p>
<p>The teachers and you are not going there, he is. End of subject, period, dot. You trust him to be intelligent and mature, right? Then trust him to make the intelligent decision for HIS LIFE!</p>
<p>Flip it also, what if he goes to W&M do you think that he won’t be able to get into Princeton as a transfer?</p>
<p>Princeton does not take transfer students.</p>
<p>buffaloperson: Thank you - my point exactly! it’s not like I/he didn’t do our homework on the situation.</p>
<p>Princeton is a Liberal Arts University!! May not be the best LAU of the Ivies but it’s the one he picked to apply to!! I did not pick the schools. And I know it is his life/his decision but it could also be flipped around - why didn’t you push me if you thought it was the better choice. The whole transfer thing, to me, is the best scenario - go, if you don’t love it, transfer, end of story.</p>
<p>I pity the OP’s son. It appears that no matter what choice he makes, he’ll be miserable. </p>
<p>If he picks Princeton, he’ll resent being there and spend his time pining for W&M.
If he picks W&M, he’ll have to live with his parents’ disappointment and any “strings” attached to the college funding. </p>
<p>I agree with bulletandpima. Word for word. </p>
<p>And so what if Princeton doesn’t take transfers? Other fine schools do. </p>
<p>If son is unhappy at W&M then it’s his fault. Not yours. Let him put on his big boy undies and make this big boy decision…and then let him live with it.</p>
<p>The parents are paying for both schools.</p>
<p>Thus their opinions justifiably factor in.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Then I don’t see what the issue is. If the parents want to use the money to control the outcome, so be it. Their minds are made up: Princeton is where he belongs. </p>
<p>So let me revise the last line of my previous post…</p>
<p>If son is unhappy at Princeton, then it’s the parent’s fault. Not his. Let the parents make the decision…and then live with it.</p>
<p>I don’t think we should assume that the student’s currently stated preference for W&M is a carefully thought out mature decision, and that he’d be miserable at Princeton. It might be, but it might be whimsical, too. I would suggest to the OP that you ask your son to write down, in as much detail as possible, what he sees as the pros and cons of the schools he is considering. Ask him to be honest and thoughtful. While I don’t think that money should necessarily govern the decision, I think he is obligated to take your reasonable suggestions and concerns into account. When he’s made his list, go over it with him and add your own pros and cons that he may not have thought of. Then ask him to sleep on it, visit, talk to others, etc., before making the final decision. But then let him make the final decision.</p>
<p>Hunt: Thank you for your advice. This is exactly what we have done - just waiting to see the pro/con list. If you have been following along, my main concern developed more into the fact that there was not a reason (other than ‘everyone’ is expecting him to go to Princeton and therefore he does not feel it’s ‘his’ decision), for not choosing the top choice on his list. We visited all the schools before applications were in and some even after they were in, so I do not think it’s a matter of him not liking one school over the other. We are also not asking him to consider the financial portion. He did get into another state school with full tuition merit scholarship but turned it down when he received notifications from other schools on his list. There are many students and teachers who attend/attended from both schools he can talk to for insights to campus life, academics, etc., but has not contacted. Maybe it’s just ‘cold feet’/nerves/anxiety about the whole thing. </p>
<p>Thank you all for comments - I will continue to play devil’s advocate - trying to give him different situations to think about - and continue to not tell him I would prefer he attend Princeton over W&M. Both my husband and I agree, he has to own it.</p>
<p>My parents forced me to go to a college I didn’t want to, telling me I’d be “better off” there. Four years later I am still ****ed at them. I regret every second I spend here. I didn’t do too well, either - always so busy wondering “what if”. Sure, my parents sent me to state school instead of another choice. But, I honestly think it works the other way around. </p>
<p>Feeling like the decision isn’t yours hurts…maybe he hasn’t worked hard all of those years to get into the best school he can…maybe he worked hard all of those years because he wanted choices in his life. He wanted doors open to him. He said, if I put in the effort now, I can go wherever I want later. If the place he wants is W&M, so be it.</p>
<p>Even if he is making a rash judgement and it’s a “mistake”, it’s not like this is Princeton versus CC. W&M is widely respected and he will certainly be successful there. In addition to saying you think Princeton is the best choice, you should also tell him you support him wherever he ends up.</p>