Finally taking to starting my own thread on this after haunting the plethora of Yale/Princeton posts! I never thought I’d be having this problem, and I know how blessed I am to even be evaluating such a decision. So here are my current pro-con lists:
Yale:
Pros
-love, love, love the res college system! also have some friends already going, so it’ll be faster to find my own place
-dunno if I’m going to do law school, but if I will, I know that Yale is good for undergrad (law school internship opps, higher rate of passing to YLS)
-arts scene is very vibrant which could inspire me as a writer
-(rumored) friendly kids and inclusive, collaborative atmosphere
-lots of majors (can explore more)
-had been a dream school of mine (childhood nostalgia appeal)
Cons
-small city setting and vibrant, extroverted social scene could be distracting/overwhelming for me (I’m an introvert and generally have intense FOMO feels)
-Bigger school in general
-creative writing dept not as great as Pton’s
-very politically active (I am not very outspoken in terms of politics and find very politically-charged events uncomfortable)
Princeton:
Pros
-English & creative writing dept is amazing
-more undergrad-focused (strong relationships with profs are important to me, though I hear that Yale also has those)
-smaller school & quiet suburb setting (easier to focus, introvert vibes & less sense of FOMO)
-alumni network is superb and supportive (literally have had an alumni network near where I live contact me every other day asking if I have any qs about Pton and generally trying to persuade me to choose Pton over Yale lol); also could be very, very useful in the future (I heard Yale’s alumni network isn’t as good)
-depth over breadth through junior paper and senior thesis
-most endowment per student! literally can just ask for funding for almost anything
-would challenge me in terms of academic growth
-strong Christian community
Cons
-(rumored) competitive pre-professional vibe
-stress culture?? (I don’t deal well with stress but this could be an opp to force myself to work on developing those coping mechanisms)
-unofficial grade deflation :((
-(rumored) profs can’t teach/are unfair in some depts (though this is probs the case for Yale as well?)
-(rumored) preppy, more exclusive vibes
I would love to hear especially from current students/alumni about either school to correct any of the pros/cons I’ve listed or to determine which would be a better fit for me.
I am a parent, and I have not heard the Pton cons you list. Admittedly a stem kid — not sure if his observations hold true on the creative writing side.
I think you’re over thinking it. Two fantastic schools - but different environments.
Not sure friends going to a school is a good thing. Too many “latch on” to their HS friends and then find that they missed at making new friends and integrating with others - til it’s too late.
Which school gives you the best feeling - that’s where you should be.
From your write up sounds like Yale.
You created pros that are pros - like Princeton has more endowment per student…I assure you that at either school you can get funded opportunities.
Most of your pros & cons are either not meaningful, true for both places, or just LOL (creative writing not as good at Yale as Princeton?! you are really splitting hairs- and if that was your primary metric you would be going to Emory or Iowa…)
The true-est thing I see in your lists is that Yale does prefer their own when it comes to Law School admissions. Of course, 1) a preference is just that- they turn down plenty of their own, and 2) it only matters if you decide that you not only want to go to Law School, but you want to go to Yale Law School. (or possibly Harvard).
You can make up lists of pros and cons all day long, but there is no objectively ‘better’ or ‘worse’ / ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ decision here. You have to just trust yourself, and make the leap. The one you choose will be the right one because you choose to make it be the right one. I know that sounds tautological- but it is true. Whichever school you choose will have warts and faults and disappointments- and will also have opportunities for discovery, adventure, and sparkling moments. Every path has its puddles- what matters is that you like where the path is taking you. Trust yourself.
The Princeton of yore, before and in the decade when it had just started admitting women, was definitely very preppy. I am on that campus with some regularity and have wondered where those folks are on the campus, if anywhere.
The campuses and towns are different, and even the vibe of each is different. You should pick by which feels right to you. Your post reads that it is Yale, but only you know.
For creative writing, I would consider these questions:
Who will you be studying with? Are there specific writers in your genre on faculty that you want to work with?
How likely is it that undergraduates will get to study with the above faculty? Can you ask around and find out how enrollment in CW courses work? (i.e. at some schools, the famous faculty only work with grad students, or their advanced undergrad workshops are application-based and not everyone can get in)
Look at the lecturers / visiting writers / adjuncts who are teaching writing courses. It’s very likely this is who you will be taking intro courses with. Do you prefer one list over the other?
FWIW, Yale was historically more prominent in Creative Writing, but I agree with you that Princeton’s program is stronger now (though, arguably, this would matter more if it were for a graduate program than undergrad). Comparing the faculty list, Princeton brings in a way more diverse group of writers and looks like it would be a fantastic undergrad experience with all of the visiting writers that pass through. But your undergrad experience won’t solely be based around creative writing, so there is nothing wrong with choosing Yale if all signs point there for overall experience, either. You’ll be a better writer if you are someplace that you love and feel engaged.