Princeton vs. Yale?

College Search & Selection
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Hi everyone!

With only a few days remaining, I have narrowed down my college choices to either Princeton or Yale (both are roughly equal in cost). At the end of the day, I am extremely grateful to both institutions for accepting me, and don’t think I can go wrong with choosing either school. I have tentative plans to major in CS with a long-term interest in working in the industry or attending law or grad school, and I would appreciate any additional input that would help me make my decision.

YALE:
Yale has been my first choice throughout the entire college applications process. I loved the strength of its arts culture, the “community” vibe from its residential college system, the dining food, the Master Teas and butteries, and its grade inflation. I’ve visited the campus and liked it, especially its art gallery and res colleges. Commons being under construction until 2020 seems really frustrating but is something I can live with. My parents also have concerns about the grittiness of New Haven, but I believe Yale makes every effort to make sure its students are as safe as possible. I don’t mind living in an urban setting.

Compared to Princeton, Yale also holds (arguably) the larger international reputation. It falls short CS-wise, as I’ve heard that its curriculum leans theoretical, that the CS faculty is too small to adequately cover most of the “hot” fields, that electives are either outdated or limited or not very applicable in the industry, and that there are only a few (albeit prominent) companies that recruit at Yale. When I visited Yale and talked to several CS majors, I got the impression that they weren’t very serious about pursuing CS as a career. They didn’t have the pre-professional vibe that I’ve seen in students from other (state) schools. This is both a plus and a minus - I can appreciate the emphasis on exploring other fields aside from my major, but at the same time, I’d prefer to gain skills valuable to a stable career as well. However, the small size of Yale’s CS department also translates to a lower student:faculty ratio and ample research opportunities, as well as a senior project. Yale is currently pushing a lot of money into improving its STEM departments, though I’m not sure how much improvement that will make by the time I graduate in four years. Though, to be fair, the CS faculty at Yale (which includes Dragomir Radev!!) is already pretty amazing.

If I end up pursuing CS at Yale, I may either also double-major with econ or attempt a combined BS/MS. This comes at the cost of taking additional elective classes, however, and I’m not sure how employers would view a prospective employee with a Yale CS degree.

PRINCETON:
If I liked Yale’s urban buildings, then I LOVED Princeton’s beautiful suburban location. There is a tranquility and reverence here that aligns with my vision of an ideal college campus. Ranking-wise, Princeton is 1st for undergraduate education and top 10 for CS. What appealed to me about Princeton is its strong undergraduate focus, emphasis on research, gorgeous Firestone and Engineering libraries, vibrant humanities (Toni Morrison! Tracy K. Smith!!), and the solid alumni network. My parents seemed to prefer Princeton to Yale as its location is safer and closer to where family friends live. However, the social scene at Princeton does not seem as welcoming as Yale’s - I don’t quite buy into the concept of eating clubs, though I will likely join one since they occupy such a large presence. I’ve heard that grade deflation still exists despite its reversal a few years back, which isn’t a deal breaker for me, since my high school is similarly known for its grade deflation, but will be a definite minus.

I’ve heard remarks about the Princeton CS curriculum that, like Yale’s, it tends to be theoretical / math-heavy, which prepares students well for grad school and less so for industry work. Not sure if I should be scared of the mathematical rigor since I’ve already taken multivariable calculus, differential equations, and linear algebra in high school, in addition to standard calculus sequences. Looking at the Princeton CS course list, there also seems to be less emphasis on interdisciplinary CS+X classes than Yale, which offers Programming Musical Applications, Law Technology, and Culture, etc. Google, Microsoft, and Facebook also recruit heavily at Princeton, from what I’ve heard.

From what I’ve gathered, I think while I would do better career-wise at Princeton, I would be happier at Yale, if only marginally so. A lot of the reasons for and against these two schools is based on conversations with students and friends, so I’d appreciate any advice you guys have! Thanks in advance!

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Congratulations, @samosalover - you’ve got two fantastic options here, and will do well whichever one you choose. Picking up on one of your points, though, here’s something about New Haven that I posted on another thread:

Over the past 15 years, the university has invested a great deal in the city of New Haven, providing financial subsidies to Yale employees who buy homes in the city, building new graduate student housing, contributing to the local school system (significantly boosting high school graduation rates), contributing to local law enforcement (including building a new police station and activity center) and, most noticeably, snapping up scores of retail properties adjoining campus to rebuild and rent them to more desirable tenants. Take a walk down Broadway or Chapel Street, two of the main centers for retail and restaurants; nowadays it feels a lot like, for example, Harvard Square (and relative to what it was, say, ten years ago, it’s like night and day).

The result of all of this is that the city has had something of a renaissance and is far more attractive, livable and safe, with many more dining and nightlife options, than ever before. Crime has plummeted - according to the Yale administration, crime ((as disclosed in government statistics) is the second-lowest in the Ivy-Plus group of ten schools. In 2017, the city, which has a population of about 130,000, had just seven murders, none near campus or involving anyone from Yale. The outside world’s image of New Haven is far behind the current reality.

Given your background and interests, I’m also tagging in @IxnayBob, whose son got a combined bachelor’s and master’s in CS at Yale and was apparently very pleased with the experience.

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Thanks for the tag-in :slight_smile: @samosalover, you are one of the few asking this question who appreciates that there’s also an upside to having a smaller CS department.

My back story: our son is graduating with a combined MS/BS in CS. He has had loads of research opportunities, has published papers in peer reviewed machine learning journals, has presented one of them in Kyoto (with a cash prize), has worked closely with respected faculty, has TAed UG and graduate courses. He had great internship opportunities (two of which he did), has accepted a job at one of them, will be starting there in August after traveling, and will return to Yale as a recruiter for that firm in his spare time.

I don’t have as much experience with Princeton as some other schools, which is strange, since we lived in NJ. My impression of the half-dozen P students I have known is that they are less easy-going than Yale students.

Simplistically, I recommend Yale for students interested in mathy, theoretical CS.

DS has not found the faculty too small, although he is happy that it is expanding. He found plenty of opportunities for applicable courses, albeit in the graduate school. His interest is specifically in theoretical CS, machine learning, deep learning, etc., and he didn’t “run out” of courses. Fwiw, he prepared 3 lectures in his specialty for a graduate class, which I guess you could view as a “failing” of faculty depth, or a “positive” of encouraging students to challenge themselves.
He did not find any shortage of recruitment opportunities.

DS’s crowd is pretty serious about CS. There are of course students who picked CS as a major because it’s what is hot, or what they think is an “adult decision,” or what their friends are doing. DS says that many drop out of CS when the rigor starts, but I’m sure that happens in other majors also. I read somewhere that 70% of students change their major, at least once. You could argue, I guess, that DS’s choice to work as a Quant Trader means that he isn’t pursuing CS as a career, but there is a significant CS component to the trading.

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Go to Princeton if you are interested in CS.

These should be enough to start with, if you don’t persuade the “math major” track. The math major may be difficult if you were not interested in AMC/AIME competitions in high school. Check the results for the Putman’s math competitions and you will see the type of students studying math at Princeton.