<p>Calmom, in the case of my D's classmates, it's not a perceived value thing but their experiences about their classes, relations with profs, dorm life, etc. But they all seem to like most of the other students there with them.</p>
<p>Going to college is of course about the education, but you must consider other factors. I am from philly and have visited DC many times. The city is amazing!! I am going to Boston University next year because i want to take the risk and move away from college. Granted, Philadelphia to Boston is not as large of a leap from coast to coast. I would try to find every possible way to get the money together. I know that many schools will award scholorship based on first semister or year GPA. MY friend is going to George Washington University and if he attains a 3.7 for the first semester, and a 3.0 thereafter, he will have a half scholorship. Really look into stuff like that. So basically i would opt for Georgetown because you need to experiece a change. Picture yourself in 15 yrs or so. Do you think that in 15 years you would regret not going to DC? you only get one shot at an undergraduate degree, so experience it where you really want to. Since both are great schools you cant go wrong. But in the end it is up to you!! Good Luck!!</p>
<p>Momof2inca -- have you spent much time in Berkeley? I wish I could draw a picture to show what I mean. The academic part of the Cal campus is located on a large rectangular area bounded by Bancroft Way on the south, Oxford St. on the west, and Hearst Avenue on the north; the campus extends into the hills on the east. The University also owns land and buildings that extend beyond those boundaries, but they don't have the sense of a "campus" - the high rise buildings on the south are located in neighborhoods that also have lots of private commercial businesses, plus a lot of frat houses. Some of the dorms are located close to the perimeter of the area I described, in the north and east sides - it's an uphill walk from the main part of campus. </p>
<p>The Clark Kerr complex is about half a mile to the south, on the site of what used to be the California School for the Deaf -- and it does have a campus-like feel --- but that's because it once was a different school on a separate campus. However, it is possible to walk back & forth from campus along College Ave. & Warring, completely avoiding the riff-raff on Telegraph - and it would be an easy bike ride. </p>
<p>Foothill actually is adjacent to campus, on the north end of Hearst. It's a very nice area, but also up a steep hill and it's far from the main area of campus - unless things have changed a lot in the past 30 years, that corner is pretty quiet. I lived very close to campus on the north side when I was at school there, only about a block or two away from Foothill, and the area was very nice, but definitely did not have a "campus" like feel. Bowles is right near the stadium - so it really is "on campus" - but again in an area that is not particularly close to the main part of campus.</p>
<p>Kaytes, I would just like to point out that for $80,000, one can buy a lot of opportunities to experience a "change" - even if going to school near home. One advantage of Cal is that you pay in-state tuition for your study abroad experiences - and kids can apply for summer internships anywhere. I'm not trying to question the value of attending school in a new area - I went far and so did my son. Just the price tag. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that a student who graduates with a large amount of debt will need to go straight to work after graduation in order to earn enough to pay the bills (or else go to grad school to continue to defer payment) -- the student who graduates without debt can afford to take 6 months or a year off post-grad to travel or live abroad. Back in my day it was very common for students to take the time to do that.</p>
<p>Along those same lines, calmom, that money can be used to support said student during a period of unpaid internship, if she enters into one.</p>
<p>That's one of the things that's troubling me- I think that if I go to Georgetown, just because of the school I will be able to get into a better grad school.</p>
<p>However, if I go to Cal, sure I'll get into a good grad school, but I'll be able to pay for it, too! Whereas from Georgetown, I might be lacking in the funds department.</p>
<p>Well, you'll all soon know which school I choose since tomorrow is the deadline (I set it for myself).</p>
<p>:o</p>
<p>Hey Calidan,</p>
<p>I know you're still deciding, but just know that you're supported all the way -- no matter what your decision is. Besides, we know So-Cal is superior. :).. Just kidding.</p>
<p>Seriously, it'll be awkward on the Hilltop without our CC EA Hoyas, but ... if finances have you go to Cal, then so be it -- Berkeley is a great place. Good luck wherever you go.</p>
<p>-- Andrew</p>
<p>calidan - I can't imagine that Cal wouldn't be equally as impressive as Georgetown on a grad school app. Hopefully others will chime in if I am wrong.</p>
<p>I would think that it is what you do while you are there, rather than where it is that you do it. (at least these two)</p>
<p>After alot of soul searching, my son chose U. of Pittsburgh over Carnegie Mellon and approx $70K debt. He decided a few days ago, and is happy and relieved at the decision. We felt that for us, the $70K wasn't worth it and the saving will afford many more opportunities later on.</p>
<p>Just an anecdotal story: I have a friend who chose her state u over privates for undergrad, and then had the funds to attend Penn veterinary school, which was her goal. </p>
<p>Good luck with your decision, which ever way it goes!</p>
<p>I spent four very turbulent but rewarding years at Cal. I had no trouble getting accepted at great grad schools and eventually law schools. I was able to make career choices without huge financial debt dictating my future. It is a no-brainer, academically and financially, Cal is simply the better choice.</p>
<p>Cal is just fine for grad school apps. I wouldn't imagine there'd be any difference at all with G'town on that score. Cal consistently is one of the top four public U's overall, regardless of who is doing the rankings.</p>
<p>TD:</p>
<p>not sure about your D's friends, but Cal has great spirit, and most undergrads just love it there (with the exception of housing, of course, which is THE bureacracy). With the exception of being close to politics (which is great for some), IMO there is absolutely little that GTown offers over Cal. The DC area is phenomenal -- for adults -- but not kid friendly, particularly when the restaruants are all expense account types and outrageously expensive for the average joe. </p>
<p>Calidan:</p>
<p>why attracted you to Georgetown in the first place? Jesuit school? OOS? Chance to intern at Congress? Does G-Town have grade inflation? (Cal definitely does not, at least in the math/sciences.)</p>
<p>Calidan:</p>
<p>I suggest going to Cal and saving the money for law school. It's not easy getting outside funding for law school. My hunch is that you would need to work so hard to chip away at the $80k that you would not have the chance to enjoy the Gtown experience anyway.</p>
<p>Calmom,
Thanks for the explanation. I've only been to Berkeley one time and it was a one-day visit about 18 months ago, with the tour, etc... so I don't remember as much as I'd like to. I just pulled up the campus map on the web and now I can see what you mean. Wow, it really does look like a long walk from Foothill and Bowles to the main part of campus, but S loves walking so I doubt it will be a problem. I like the idea of him having a quieter place to go back to after classes, if he wants. Thanks for your explanations!</p>
<p>Calidan, good luck with your decision!</p>
<p>momof2:</p>
<p>the campus is a lot more compact than most. Actually, Foothill and Bowles have several big advantages: 1) away from the hustle and bustle of Telegraph Ave. (altho for some this is a downside since the pubs and restaraunts are a hike) 2) right next to Kleeberger, which is one of the main fields for intramural sports which are huge; 3) its only a hop, skip and jump to the B school and the main buildings for math, chemistry and engineering. For many students, Foothill and Bowles are closer than the Residence Halls. OTOH, the School of Public Health can't get any farther away. :)</p>
<p>tip, UCB Housing is notoriously bureacratic -- get your apps in EARLY.</p>
<p>OP,
I feel the problem is in using the concept of a "right" and wrong choice . That doesn't apply here. Both schools are good choices and you will likley be equally successful at either although your experoience may vary because of the type of school and location. 80K will be more than that by your senior year. Which undergrad school you attend has a lot less to do with getting into a good grad school so I say that if they are truly equal in your mind, each w/ pros and cons, then save the money and use if for study abroad or other opportunties.</p>
<p>Momof2inca - I'd recommend Foothill or Clark Kerr over Bowles. Just think a minute -- Bowles is an all-male dorm located right by the stadium. Maybe it's changed a lot, but it my day it had a reputation for being kind of rowdy. </p>
<p>I didn't mean to suggest that Foothill is an impossible walk -- it is up hill, but that's not going to bother a youngster in good health. I lived about 3 blocks from Foothill for 3 years, going to law school - the law school is all the way across on the other side of campus -- and I always walked, never a problem. Actually I used to run the distance - it was my jogging path. </p>
<p>The campus just isn't all that big when it comes down to it - you can be just as far away from the center of things at other colleges, even in dorms that are clearly within the campus perimeters. It's just that once you cross the perimiter roads that I listed, it doesn't "feel" like campus any more. On the north side, it feels mostly like nice, pretty residential neighborhoods. Of course, living in a dorm or coop is not so quiet, no matter where it is located.</p>
<p>I just was trying to explain that there is not a lot of difference between Berkeley dorms and many off-campus living arrangements -- I'm sure that my apartment was closer to the center of campus than any of the dorms we mentioned. My brother lived in one of the co-ops, a block away from where I was -- and probably about the same distance the center of campus as Foothill.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone so much for the advice! I still haven't made my decison (:(), but I know that whatever decision I do make, now it will be an informed one.</p>
<p>Thanks again! :D</p>
<p>calidan:
Unfortunately you are very much disadvantaged in the decision process based on the fact the fact you are from the bay area. Cal is one of the truly premier schools in the world, but it may be hard to see that based on where you live. As others have said, unless you are seeking some very specific experience that you have yet to articulate, Cal should be a school that you should say, "I am going to Berkeley unless someone can give me an overwhelming argument as to why I should not". When you apply to grad school, admissions officers will stand up and take notice of your Berkeley degree - I am not quite as confident about Georgetown (although it is also a good school). I lived within 5 miles of each school as a young adult, and trust me, Berkeley is "beyond cool" for a student compared to Georgetown (sorry, as a much, much older parent, I used "beyond cool" although I do not really know know what it means - I just know that Berkeley was hands down, much better than Georgetown for a student unless you are off-the-scale political).</p>