USC vs Cal for Chemistry

I am a Cal alumni myself so it’s a no brainier for me. Need help convincing daughter to go there vs USC. In her opinion, Cal has toxic culture and less attractive students. I want her to experience all Cal has to offer as I believe she would get solid academic experience there. She already heard from all her schools and these are her only two acceptances. Additional info: She applied for chem to both schools.

Is there a significant price difference? If so that could be a meaningful factor in the decision. If not, I’d let her choose the experience that feels right to her. If possible I’d try to revisit both during accepted student days.

FWIW neither of my kids went to my alma mater and I do feel that both ended up in the right place for them.

Congrats on your D’s two great acceptances.

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Thank you. Yeah we are in Cali so UC would be more affordable. She is our last one out of the nest, would love for her to just enjoy school but Cal just seems like such a no-brainer choice to me as far as prestige and academics

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If she were getting a PhD, then yes. For a BS, no. If the money isn’t too much of an issue, I would let her decide.

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In the end, the family sets the budget. So if you deem USC as unaffordable or you not wanting to afford, that’s where you come in. Of course, those budget discussions need to happen b4 the process and not after so you have the - if you get into USC but don’t get merit, then it’s off the table discussion. Many of us have that!!!

Otherwise, alumni connections aside, it’s her four years, not yours. The experience will be different for sure - well heeled private vs. burgeoning public.

My one worry would be the less attractive students comment- does she mean looks wise or as an overall profile?

Personally, I’d breathe a big sigh of relief if these are your only two acceptances - meaning you didn’t apply to many schools or you reached way way way too high and could have been shut out.

You do have the option to compromise - you can still, for example, this late get into an Arizona with big merit so depending on UW HS GPA it could be less than both $ wise - and no, it doesn’t have the pedigree bought you’d save a boatload and perhaps the student body would be less toxic and more attractive :slight_smile:

For what it’s worth, in Chem (according to Niche),

UCB is #24
USC is #67

Honestly, it’s a degree that leads to grad school or a low paying job so I get the monetary aspect. But as far as being an alum…it’s ok for kids to blaze their own path. I mean, mine are both at schools I never would have dreamed of. Your love of university is not a reason for another person to attend (in my reason) so outside of $ or other factors, this is a parent and not child issue.

Good luck to you.

If “toxic culture” means something along the lines of “cutthroat competitive pre-meds”, she will likely find that anywhere due to her choice of major in chemistry.

However, both UCB and USC have different general chemistry courses for chemistry majors, and UCB has different organic chemistry courses for chemistry majors, so some of the pre-meds (those who are not chemistry majors) will be in different courses.

Is she dead set against Cal? Or, are her comments meant kind of tongue in cheek?

how significant is the price difference?

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I would never make my kids go to school they didn’t want to go to. That results in an angry and unmotivated student. Cal is one of those places you either love or hate. Cal’s reputation is based on its graduate and professional programs, not undergrad. When it comes to the latter, I consider Cal as not much different than other good state flagships. I went to grad school at USC, btw, so I guess I have my biases.

Cal is fantastic for Chem. Top 1 or 2. There are at least 6 elements in the periodic table that are named by Cal chemists, such as Lawrencium etc. Cal is at the forefront of cutting edge chemistry. For example Jennifer Doudna of CRISPR fame is at Cal, and you can go and work in her lab as an undergrad. And as you correctly point out, it is inexpensive. And the Chem department is not as crowded as some of the other areas like EECS. When you drill down into the sub specialities like chemical biology etc, which you get to by junior year, the numbers (of students in the program) are very manageable – like 20-40. That is amazingly cozy for a place like Cal.

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I attended Berkeley and have a child at USC (merit scholarship made it affordable). IMO, cost is the biggest factor. USC without merit probably isn’t worth it. That said, the small class sizes, ease of getting classes and overall customer service at USC is a hands down win over Berkeley. From a culture standpoint, USC is more collaborative compared to Berkeley’s cut-throat, competitive environment. The student population at USC tends to be more affluent. Berkeley student style is more urban grunge where USC is more So Cal beachy combined with east coast prep.

I am hoping that they are, yes, sort of typical teen comments… most things she doesn’t like about Cal are of superficial nature. I think she understands that it’s a stronger school academically. I am trying to convince her not because it’s my alma mater but because I genuinely believe that it’s a better school. And yes it is also significantly cheaper.

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Yes, I agree. Thank you!!

I hope she doesn’t mean looks wise, but who knows. She just says it’s a “cooler” place to spend 4 years. Do kids at usc really look that different from cal kids? I must be getting old as I am not following this train of thought.

No it seems to be rated quite higher overall :frowning:

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Significant enough :frowning:

I think for an undergrad chemistry degree - UCB or USC won’t matter. Or frankly Nebraska or New Mexico or wherever.

Just my opinion.

She’s either going to grad school or a low paying job - and her GPA and test scores will matter much more for grad school.

So I personally think the pedigree thing is overplayed - and I’m not so sure that UCB is, overall. Yes a better school for chemistry although yes it is higher rated and yes I saw @neela1 comments.

Do you even know if she’s going to end up in Chem (many / most change majors)?

That said, here is another rank - shows UCB #11th nationally, 4th in the west, and USC not even in the top 10 in CA.

Still, I don’t think in this case it really matters - just my opinion. She needs to be happy, day after day after day for four years. And USC is a fantastic school and will give her a fine education if she ends up going that route.

2022 Best Chemistry Schools in California - College Factual

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as in UCB or USC is more expensive?

How much is each if you don’t mind sharing, i think it’ll give us more perspective