<p>I grew up in Northern VA and never considered going to the "local state school" in Charlottesville. It seemed that half my HS was going there. So I went out of state to Wake Forest. Elsewhere on this forum a student asks whether Wake or UVA, and everyone's acknowledging that UVA's more prestigious. I couldn't see that from my vantage point as a HS senior.</p>
<p>It's unfortunate that proximity takes the luster off of excellent schools. It's also ironic -- I was a Texan who came to California for my education and made a deliberate choice to settle in the SF area. There were many factors -- as far as child rearing, I wanted to raise my kids in the ethnically diverse environment that SF offered. Proximity, was a big plus, and I always had a picture in my mind that my kids would grow up and attend Cal -- it never even occured to me that they would want to attend private colleges. To me, a big plus of living in California was the knowledge that my kids would have in-state tuition at a university system that in my youth, was considered world-class. I honestly couldn't imagine any kid wanting anything else. </p>
<p>I didn't mind when my son turned down his spot at Cal - his preference for a LAC was clear. In fact, the only private schools he applied to were all LAC's with under 2000 students -- he had briefly toyed with the idea of applying to an Ivy, but then decided that he would prefer Cal over any other larger college or university. So I could support his choice - which was really about class size and student/teacher ratio. (But I think that in hindsight, he has had a few regrets -- perhaps a gap year would have been a better choice - Cal probably would have overwhelmed him at 18).</p>
<p>But it frustrates me that my daughter will not seriously consider the UC's. She has already promised me that she will apply, for financial reasons -- she knows a private college is possible only with financial aid. But I don't want her at some UC campus resenting being there, so I would rather she would take a look at the programs and get a sense of which campuses would be the best fit for her -- but her words: "I want to get out of California." It's not that she doesn't like living here -- quite the contrary, she loves living in the SF area, as does my son -- she just wants to go somewhere else for school. </p>
<p>So.... what's a parent to do??? I mean, here we have had the wisdom and good sense to settle in a state with a high quality and very affordable university system. The parents in states with mediocre public universities are envious -- if only they had our options. But to our kids, the grass is always greener on another coast.</p>
<p>calmom, I feel for you. I think of the UCs/CS/Cal Polys/CC as a safety choice, not because they are easy but if for some reason d has no other choice, the above is fine with me.
A question for you, you mentioned in some OP that you can pay in-state tuition for some overseas experience. My d would love to go to Europe and study for one year, her father is European, so it's good idea she explores her heritage, which UC school offer that option?</p>
<p>All UCs do study abroad through EAP (Education Abroad Program.) The costs for studying abroad are, in almost all cases, exactly the same as studying on-campus at the home UC. The program is exaclty the same, no matter which UC you attend.</p>
<p>The quality of the program is outstanding, as most of the schools UC students are at are the top schools in the respective countries, or pretty darn close. I studied alongside Harvard and UPenn colleagues at both my schools in Japan.</p>
<p>SusieQ - all UC's offer study abroad options, and as far as I know, just about every college everywhere offers study abroad.</p>
<p>But generally, the way study abroad works is that the student pays their ordinary tuition to their school, which in turn funds the study abroad program -- there may also be added expenses for housing and administrative costs. </p>
<p>So here is where the discrepency comes in: many colleges send their students to the same programs, but student pay wildly divergent costs. So a student who is studying at Oxford via the Yale exchange program may be paying $30,000 to be there, while the student who is coming via Cal is paying $5,000.(Example only: I have no idea whether either Yale or Cal have exchange programs with Oxford - I'm just using familiar names for examples).</p>
<p>Moreover -- students may pay to study at a particular institute or university abroad via their home schools, when the same institution might also allow direct enrollment, for a cost even less than the cost of the in-state tuition. So rather than do a study abroad program via a college, your daughter might also be able to work through her father's family to arrange to enroll directly at a European college, paying European rates, which in most cases would be significantly less than US college tuitions. However, if she took that approach, she might have difficulty transferring her credits to a US university.</p>
<p>calmom,</p>
<p>In the case of the UCs, studying through EAP is by far the cheapest and best option. However, for many privates, your idea is not a bad one at all. But again, for UCs, you might as well go EAP for simplicity and price.</p>
<p>calmom and UCLAri, thanks for the info. I think it's best that she gets her degree here, but go overseas for the experience is a very good idea.
calmom,have you look at the exchange rate lately, it's not as cheap unless things change.</p>
<p>Depends on the country. Europe, because it is fettered to the Euro, sucks. However, studying in most parts of Latin America are super cheap! My friend went to the PRC and spent like zip on living costs!</p>
<p>Er, UCLAri, my daughter is seriously thinking of taking a gap year to study at an institute in a city you probably have never heard of -- and where there are no other American students - where the cost would be $1000 tuition for the full year, plus another $1000 to live in the dorms, though she says the dorms are terrible and she can easily get an apartment for the year for $500. </p>
<p>I don't doubt that EAP is a good deal for many destinations, but if you are going to a third-world or economically depressed country -- even the EAP cost can be pricy.</p>
<p>Yes, but the ability to guarantee that the home university/UC will accept the units? Priceless.</p>
<p>I hope the OP is factoring into the overall cost the issue of it being next to impossible to graduate from a UC in four years due to the apparent unavailability of necessary classes. Most, if not all, of the people I know who have attended UC's in recent years end up as 5th year seniors because of the bottleneck of getting classes necessary for their major and fulfilling graduation requirements. That ups the cost a bit.</p>
<p>Dizzymom, what's the hurry, I prefer d to have a gap year, or get some co-op experience. I rushed and tried to finish college in 3-year, for what, now that I'm older I see no point. What's a difference in a year in one life if one is to live till 100(lol)</p>
<p>Do the math, Dizzymom.... 5 years at a UC is still substantially less than 4 years at most private colleges. I suppose you could factor in the potential for employment lost with that 5th year -- but then again, if the kid is aiming for grad school, he isn't going to be earning that year in any case.</p>
<p>Here's why I might once have bought that argument but won't go for it now: my son went to a private LAC, messed up with a course, and could not possibly graduate in 4 years from there - unless the missed course work was made up somewhere else, since the cost of a 5th year at the LAC is prohibitive. What I see with the UC system is more options, not less -- and I also have a feeling that the issues about getting all the classes probably only effect certain majors. Also, the UC system awards credit for AP scores of 3 -- while most LACs require a 4 or a 5 -- so many kids can actually graduate early from the UC's, because they often can start off with sophomore standing.</p>
<p>By the way, the OP has posted elsewhere that he has now decided on Georgetown.</p>
<p>I think my view is also colored by the fact that I know of several kids who went out of state to private colleges and ran out of money before they could finish. The frustrating thing is that it is very hard to get back into the UC system as a transfer student - so these kids have turned down Cal or UCLA, and end up with 2 years at a pricey private college and then having to finish their degrees at a CSU. It's something to think about if the financial situation is precarious.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the help, everyone!</p>
<p>And, as calmom said, I have decided on Georgetown. I guess the hefty pricetag is worth it! :p</p>
<p>calmom, "I think my view is also colored by the fact that I know of several kids who went out of state to private colleges and ran out of money before they could finish. The frustrating thing is that it is very hard to get back into the UC system as a transfer student - so these kids have turned down Cal or UCLA, and end up with 2 years at a pricey private college and then having to finish their degrees at a CSU. It's something to think about if the financial situation is precarious". That's exactly is my worry. Right now I have no problem paying private tuition, but what happens If one of the parents looses his/her job, or worse yet, if both parents don't have job, this happened quite a bit in the last recession, then what?</p>
<p>Susie & Calmom,</p>
<p>I certainly was not aware of placing a value judgement on the amount of time nor did I suggest that the extra year would make the cost the same as Gtown. I simply said that a 5th year would "up the cost a bit" and should be factored in to the overall picture.</p>
<p>Our family did find that out-of-state tuition for our kids ended up being a wash against the UC experience due to the 5th year factor. There are parents married to the idea of the affordability of the UC education who are not aware at the front end that they may likely end up financing the fifth year. Their children who may have wished for an out-of-state experience and were denied it based on cost alone (this does happen in the real world) might be grateful to have this talking point in their arsenal.</p>
<p>As for "what's the hurry", I could care less, since college is far behind me, but the peers of my children were mighty unhappy about their forced fifth year. Individuals who plan to attend law or medical school have many years of education ahead of them and can find such delays frustrating.</p>
<p>Dizzymom,</p>
<p>Although many of the 20 somethings can't imagine why, having another year of experience in life, maybe an internship or two, and maybe even working for a year or two make you more excellent applicants to all types of graduate school. Based on my own experiences with getting ready to apply for my PhD, I realized that the vast majority of PhD candidates in most fields had at least a year of real work experience under their belts.</p>
<p>The fifth year offers the opportunity to go abroad, as well, if the student is industrious and adventurous, which most are unfortunately not.</p>
<p>Dizzymom -- a parent does not HAVE to pay for a 5th year of college. I have made it very clear to my kids that I will pay for FOUR years of college, no more -- it is on them to figure out things financially if they can't graduate in that time. (I might change that for my d. as an inducement to go with an in-state school - but the basic deal is 4 years). </p>
<p>I am also not sure how much the need for a 5th year to graduate is truly because of the unavailability of classes, or partly due to poor planning on the part of students earlier in their academic careers. I'm not denying that getting all the classes can sometimes be a problem -- but as a UC grad I also know that it is very possible to dabble around for the first 2 years before declaring a major, so sometimes the kids really don't get focused on their major until junior year. Study abroad can also be a problem in that context. </p>
<p>So one further advantage - for the kid - of instate tuition is that if parental support evaporates at age 22, it is much more feasible for a student to shoulder the financial burden of the last year on their own. Keep in mind that at age 23, the financial aid system no longer requires inclusion of parental assets in the mix.</p>
<p>DM:</p>
<p>there is certainly no reason to assume a fifth year at the UC's. Any kid that WANTS to graduate in four years can do so. But, it means: 1) taking more classes than the minimum; 2) be willing to get out of bed for an 8:00 class; 3) be not-so-picky in professor selection; 4) take classes on Fridays instead of a long-weekend at Tahoe; 5) register on time, instead of holidays in Cabo.</p>
<p>The UC's also have a low 4 year grad rate bcos 1/3 of the class is low income. These kids HAVE to work PT to support themselves and/or their families. For them, graduating in 5 1/2 years is an accomplishment.</p>
<p>ps - many kids who get into Berkeley and UCLA have so many ap credits and juco college classes, they can essentially start at Soph standing.</p>