<p>I seem to have popped a boosterism bubble with my comments.</p>
<p>Please understand I have no particular feelings for or against the UC system. I only posted for the purpose of giving the OP an additional piece of information to factor into his/her decision-making process. Forgive me if I offended you.</p>
<p>Calmom, by virtue of your screename, I'm going to assume you graduated UC some years ago. Things have changed. I certainly cannot attest to whether it is possible or impossible to graduate in four years, I am simply anecdotally contributing the information that in the last ten years, students I have known have been uniformly disappointed by having to spend an extra year at UC.</p>
<p>Whether that is in their best interest for the purposes of maturity is neither here nor there. Whether their parents HAVE to pay is neither here nor there. Whether I happen to only know students with a tendency to sleep in is neither here nor there. You're all splitting hairs. I have no idea why. The simple point is, it's hard enough to get your classes at the UC's that many are unable to get the upper level classes within their majors junior and senior year to graduate on time. </p>
<p>It's not the end of the world; just a piece of information.</p>
<p>Dizzymom, you'll be surprised to find out that most graduate schools prefer students to have some kind of work experience, especially in business school. Experience adds perspective to group discussion. Imagine someone with no real life/work experience disscusses theoretically how things should be solved, how's credible is that person? I know because I've taken classes with people straight out of college.
As for "what the rush" comment, it was not meant to be directed at moms in general but for kids who think it shows how smart they are, the dumb person takes 5-year and they take 4-year( I know I used to think that way), I say that in the context of life that 1 extra year does not have a lot of effect in the long term. Take the time and smell the roses is my kind of phylosophy, even if it takes you one extra year, extra money. But I don't think it's synonymous to say if you go to UC you have to spend one extra year as you refer to "Most, if not all, of the people I know who have attended UC's in recent years end up as 5th year seniors because of the bottleneck of getting classes necessary for their major and fulfilling graduation requirements."</p>
<p>Not attacking you, Dizzymom -- but do keep in mind that my son could not possibly have managed to graduate from his pricey east coast LAC in 4 years either, due to one botched course on his part. So I'm looking at it as, "if he were at UC, he could have made up that credit over the summer or at a community college...." as opposed to a forced exit from the LAC. (He didn't flunk out - he was welcome back and had a B average - it's just that there was no way to make up the course at the LAC -- seeing the writing on the wall, he and I both agreed that it made no sense for him to return). </p>
<p>By the way, when I was in school 30 years ago, I knew LOTS of kids that took 5 or 6 years to graduate ... some were perpetual undergrads, with rumors flying that they had been on campus as long as 11 years. So delayed graduation at the UC's is nothing new. But I also saw a lot of variation in course loads -- I knew kids who started off taking 22 units or more a quarter their freshman year - 12 units was the minimum required to be considered full time, with 15-16 being the average load I carried each quarter. At UC, at least when I was there, taking 12 units cost the same as 20 -- but my son's private LAC would have charged its prorata tuition rate for an extra course, assuming that my son's advisor would have allowed it.</p>
<p>If I sound like a booster, it's because I am seeing California kids who have become disdainful of the extraordinary array of college study options available to them at rock-bottom prices. It may not be packaged as nicely as what the private colleges offer, but when you factor in overall costs and the array of options available, its a deal that's pretty hard to beat. Kind of reminds me of the times that I have the frig packed to the gills with fresh fruit, veggies and dairy products, only to have my daughter slam the refrigerator door shut in disgust, proclaiming "there's nothing to eat around here!"</p>
<p>I can understand each of your frustrations. Hopefully you also realize that my comments were simply meant to inform, not to persuade or dissuade or to defame the UC system in any way.</p>
<p>The longer I am on this forum, the more puzzled I become by the way that people with such like interests can be so hard on one another. I try to view CC as if I were attending a very large and diverse cocktail party, peopled with others as passionately interested in their childrens' education as I am. Given that I would have just met these people and begun chatting about these things, I would hope that I would remember to be careful not to be harsh or strident in my tone, despite my strong feelings.</p>
<p>It seems that we feel free to jump down others' throats here with no warning, something I do not understand, and something which causes me to sometimes forget my own good manners.</p>
<p>In the words of Rodney King, "Can't we just all get along?" </p>
<p>I honestly don't know and don't care about who is best-suited for grad school. I have no negative feelings toward the UC system, other than perhaps toward their campus parking policies, which I could go on quite a rant about. All I meant to say was what I said: that if the OP was concerned about the cost of Gtown over UC, he/she might want to consider the likelihood of five years at UC over four at Gtown because upper level classes can be elusive. </p>
<p>If I'm absolutely out of line and completely wrong and this is not an issue at all except with the people I know personally, I will be happy to stand corrected. If it is a known phenomenon and perhaps even a growing trend, then I think it's valuable for prospective students and those footing the bill for their education to be aware of that fact.</p>
<p>I think I'm allllll done with this subject, if you don't mind...</p>
<p>Dizzymom, I'm puzzled by why you think anyone jumped down your throat. No one attacked you - called you names - impugned your reasoning, etc. We just expressed differing opinions. The mention of your screen name in a responsive post is not meant as a way of attacking you - it's just common practice to make it clear whose post we are replying to, because in an active topic there can be a lot of intervening posts. I think your comment about the 5th year was a valid and important one - I just didn't think it was the whole story. </p>
<p>Anyway, I am very sorry if you feel that you have been attacked. It is very hard to have the same niceties on an internet board that you would have in a dinner table conversation, because so many people are participating -- and threads often tend to drift with 2 or 3 sub-conversations going on at once. Plus many of us will type a post in a hurry and click "Submit"... despite the appearance, we have off-line lives that we need to get back to. (I say, as my d. asks where dinner is.....)</p>
<p>Dizzymom, bluebayou:
I must take exception to your facts. Bluebayou - you state that The UC's have a low 4 year grad rate Low compared to what? In fact the 4 year graduation rate at the UCs is very much above the national average.<br>
Dizzymon: I realize you are getting upset that everyone is taking exception to what you are saying, but in fact, you are translating limited personal observations into facts. You state that Most, if not all, of the people I know who have attended UC's in recent years end up as 5th year seniors because of the bottleneck of getting classes necessary for their major and fulfilling graduation requirements. The real facts: UC has a 4 year graduation rate of 62%, considerably above the national average. In fact, the premier UC schools (Berkley, UCLA, etc) are at the very top of the national figures. The UC overall grad rate is 80% (within 6 years I believe), well above the national average of less that 60%. The average time to graduate at Berkeley is 4.2 years, a very LOW number compared to national averages (again, as someone has mentioned, students arrive with credits as freshmen) . Overall, the average 4 year graduation rate in the UC system is the highest in history. In contrast to what you suggest, these students do not have that much trouble finding courses. Regardless of the measure, the UC graduation statistics are very different than the picture you portray. It is not surprising that posts would be offered that raise contrarty views - that is what such a forum is all about.</p>
<p>Dizzymom, sorry if my posts made you feel that way. I'm an engineer and sometimes I get over analyzed, my job at work is to read and critique stuff, so I guess I do sometimes come across as critical.</p>