<p>specifically, schools like stanford VS UCLA.
which would be better?</p>
<p>i know that stanford is a MUCH better school, but is that true in terms of permed?</p>
<p>also, what private colleges would be about the same as UCLA?</p>
<p>Med school is expensive.</p>
<p>First of all, I’m not sure that “MUCH” deserves capitalization…or if the comparison even deserves the word. </p>
<p>Secondly, as far as medical school admissions are concerned, no weight is given to the name of your insitution. What matters are your GPA and your MCAT scores.</p>
<p>remember, going to a really good public school like UVA can save money :)</p>
<p>
This is a bit of an overstatement. Your undergraduate institution does matter, but not to the extent that it may in other fields.</p>
<p>You can ask any medschool adcom in the country.</p>
<p>As much as people would like a big, famous name to count for something - anything - in the med school admissions process, it just doesn’t.</p>
<p>
False. Kindly refrain from passing along blatantly incorrect information. </p>
<p>Example: Duke students get into medical schools with an average overall GPA 0.2 points below the national average and an average science GPA 0.3 points below the national average.</p>
<p><a href=“http://prehealth.duke.edu/wp-content/uploads/2007-annual-report.pdf[/url]”>http://prehealth.duke.edu/wp-content/uploads/2007-annual-report.pdf</a></p>
<p>Ahhhhhh, I knew this report would come up. How predictable. </p>
<p>You can’t just stop at the GPA - that’s just lazy and irresponsible.</p>
<p>Do note that this sheet - the sheet that you provided - states that the average MCAT score for Duke applicants to med school is a full 3 POINTS HIGHER than the national average, thus allowing for Duke applicants to have a lower GPA. </p>
<p>The lower GPA doesn’t mean that adcoms think more highly of a GPA from Duke if the MCAT scores are, on average, 3 points higher.</p>
<p>Kindly refrain from bringing in “evidence” if you only cherry-pick what works for your argument.</p>
<p>
…and yet we notice that Berkeley students had to have both higher GPAs and MCAT scores than students from Duke.</p>
<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/top20.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/top20.stm</a></p>
<p>Where’s your evidence?</p>
<p>Comparing one school’s averages to another’s averages doesn’t hold much water. Your would-be argument would rest in comparing one school’s averages to the national averages. You tried to do that, and it didn’t really work.</p>
<p>If you compare the admit rates side by side for the top 10 or so medical schools (based on US news ranking), Cal and Duke seem pretty similar. You can subtract UCSF and Duke medical schools to eliminate home field advantage.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This kind of makes your undergrad institution relevant, indirectly. If you go to a “good” undergrad institution, you’re more likely to learn more or at at higher level, and get the better score. Be it either from class size, test level, what not. To say that going to any undergrad is the same is just irresponsible.</p>
<p>William & Mary does a fantastic job getting kids into med school. Of course W&M is not exactly your “typical” public school.</p>
<p>Well here you raise a completely different argument, Lollerpants. You are saying that one university can better prepare you for a career in medicine (or at least a pre-med “major”). But my argument was that in the admissions process, a “big, famous” name doesn’t matter.</p>
<p>I’ve checked the OP’s D&B and his family’s loaded. Stanford for sure.</p>
<p>Hillary, let’s look at your claim in the context of Duke and the national average again.
National average GPA: 3.73
National average science GPA: 3.68
National average MCAT: 30.7
National accepted: 44.8%</p>
<p>Duke average GPA: 3.55
Duke average science GPA: 3.38
Duke average MCAT: 33.7
Duke accepted: 70.8%</p>
<p>I noted that Duke’s GPAs are lower, and you claimed that the higher average MCAT score balanced this out.</p>
<ol>
<li>Really? Despite Duke applicants having lower GPAs, a 3 point higher MCAT explains an admit rate 26% higher?</li>
</ol>
<p>Of course, you could claim that the lower end of Duke’s MCAT score range is higher than that of the national average, but that raises an obvious question: is this due to student intelligence, the preparation provided by the school, or some mixture of both?</p>
<ol>
<li>Less than half of the national average are admitted to medical school. In other words, an applicant with the average 3.73 GPA and 30.7 MCAT would most likely be rejected.</li>
</ol>
<p>At Duke, on the other hand, virtually all of the applicants with the average 3.55 GPA and 33.7 MCAT would be admitted – as well as 40% of the applicants below this average.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure we’ve been over this a million times. Students at Duke are more likely to be wealthier, have legacy status, helpful connections, and are also more likely to be the more abmitious, go-getter type of personality than at the “average” university.</p>
<p>Not to mention the difference in the MCAT scores might be higher / more significant than the difference in the GPAs, thus giving Duke applicants an advantage.</p>
<p>ALSO you haven’t considered that the average student at Duke probably applied to more medical schools than did the average college applicant. Obivously the person who applies to more schools has a higher chance of getting into at least one.</p>
<p>I asked the director of admissions of UPenn’s MD/PhD about the undergrad thing. He said of course it matters.</p>
<p>Oh, and explain why Harvard has a 95% acceptance rate into medical school and Berkeley has a 50% acceptance rate into medical school.</p>
<p>And explain why Princeton has a 95% acceptance rate into medical school too when the average GPA at Princeton is 0.3 lower than the average GPA of Harvard.</p>
<p>“ALSO you haven’t considered that the average student at Duke probably applied to more medical schools than did the average college applicant. Obivously the person who applies to more schools has a higher chance of getting into at least one.”</p>
<p>Why would a Duke student apply to more medical schools than an average applicant? I would argue the opposite - the stronger students would apply to less medical schools.</p>
<p>Hillary - your information is wrong… Hate to break it to you, but it does matter a little.</p>
<p>Oh, and on a more logical note, why wouldn’t it matter? Students who got a 3.9 at Harvard/Princeton/Duke are obviously (and if you argue against this, you’re just being an idiot trying to protect your ego) more academically capable than those who get a 3.9 at state schools.</p>
<p>And to end this debate for good, here’s a quote for an admissions officer for a medical school:</p>
<p>"School prestige, gpa and major work something like this:</p>
<p>A 3.7 is always better than a 3.4</p>
<p>A 3.7 from a highly regarded institution is better than a 3.7 from a no-name school.</p>
<p>A 3.7 in a challenging course of study is better than a 3.7 that is mostly fluff."
<a href=“Prestigious Undergrad | Page 3 | Student Doctor Network”>Prestigious Undergrad | Page 3 | Student Doctor Network;
<p>I don’t completely agree with Hilary that undergraduate institution does not matter, but to play devil’s advocate, MD/PhD and MD alone are two different things. Duke students are richer than the average student, so they would presumably apply to more medical schools, especially medical schools far away, whereas a less fortunate student might only apply to the ones he really wants to go to.</p>
<p>I think that the undergraduate institution matters, and that prestige probably factors in a bit, but probably not a lot. Also, I speculate that many medical schools are aware of the fact that the average or median GPA at different schools is different, and try to correct for this, especially in well known cases such as Harvard vs Princeton. A 3.5 at Harvard, while impressive on its own, means that the student is only slightly better than the average Harvard graduate, whereas a 3.5 at Princeton means more because of the lower average GPA at Princeton. Also note the fact that Harvard and Princeton are pretty much on par as far as SAT scores and things like that go.</p>