<p>Ok, so I’ve been looking around the forum (and the sticky post that specifically addresses this topic) and I’ve seen ‘suggestions’ as to which UG colleges have ‘good’ premed programs. However, there is no conclusive list that specifically outlines ‘all’ of the good premed schools. So this post is to start that list. IMO, it will allow current and future prospective med students the ability to review their options and make an ‘educated’ choice. So, anyway, I’ll start the list with the ‘obvious’ ones:</p>
<p>Please continue the list and PLEASE don’t post a long-winded response unless it’s to adjust the list b/c of some disagreement. Thanks a lot and I hope this will help some people. (BTW, try to go in descending order of prestige)</p>
<p>This is not only absurd but incorrect, as Stanford's premed advising office distributes materials to accepted students indicating that their acceptance rate is closer to 72%. Your omissions of WUSTL, JHU, Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst, and Duke are also bizarre, and your list of eight, which includes seven Ivies, is clearly Ivy biased.</p>
<p>In ANY CASE, this is still a useless metric, as schools that screen (Christopher Newport University) can achieve numbers of 100%.</p>
<p>So unless you want to move Stanford down (an absurd move; it's clearly an excellent place to be a pre-med) and CNU to the very top (an even more absurd move), we should stop assembling this list and have students decide for themselves what kind of school can provide them with advising, opportunities, and a chance for solid growth.</p>
<p>BDM : WUSTL, JHU are established grade deflators. The only reason anyone would go to them for premed is if they wanted a shot at their med schools. I have no clue about LACs for premed. As for Duke, I agree and that should be on the list, but I also made it clear that the initial list would be inconclusive. By the way, I did say "85%+ Matriculation", but the interpretation of the word 'good' can vary beyond that. If you have a problem with me putting the Ivies at the top of a list that goes in "descending order of prestige", then you're either a) someone unfamiliar with premed programs (this is doubtful based on the number of posts you have made and your distinct history on this forum) or b) someone who couldn't make it to the Ivies and holds a grudge. BTW, I'm no idiot in terms of listing the Ivies, please take note of the fact that I omitted Cornell ... To clarify the objective of this thread, I'm looking for people who have had good experiences at certain premed programs and want to come out and let us know that these are good schools. You shouldn't take offense at the fact that I included the Ivies at the top since I made it VERY clear that I was listing the "obvious" choices first. Finally, since you didn't have an argument against any particular college on the initial list, I'm going to completely disregard your post altogether and assume that any future insinuations you make will more than likely directly contradict the constructive and beneficial nature of this thread. In any case, thx for your $0.02, but maybe next time, before you blast someone for trying to do something to HELP, you'll have something more.</p>
<p>Oh and as for: "we should stop assembling this list and have students decide for themselves what kind of school can provide them with advising, opportunities, and a chance for solid growth."</p>
<p>This list is to help students understand what options are out there for them. What's good? Have you yourself EVER alerted people as to what pre med programs are notable beyond the scope of the very best? I'm not forcing a list upon anyone and neither am I naive enough to promote this list as conclusive. THESE ARE MERELY OPTIONS THAT STUDENTS CAN CONSIDER.</p>
<p>Since when did Williams, Swat and Pomona have medical schools?</p>
<p>As a Harvard undergrad, in 2006, 92% of students (alums and seniors) who applied to medical school were accepted to at least one medical school.</p>
<p>my list is for matriculation to top medical schools, which they defined to be harvard and yale, so those are the schools with the highest success rates of getting into yale med and harvard med</p>
<p>JHU made the list, but it a bit further down</p>
<p>Regardless of what you think about BDM's account on Ivies, he's absolutely correct that matriculation rate is a poor metric, further realize that the best pre-med school is one that best allows you actually get accepted to medical school. That could mean a lot of things to a lot of different people. </p>
<p>Even more so, I do not think that putting a list like this will help anyone, as it puts too much focus on the WRONG things - namely prestige, name and perceived ability to help one get into medical school. Students will be best served by finding the schools that they have the best chances to excel at in all areas - academically, socially, emotionally, and physically. Students should not pick schools on the basis of how it will impact their medical school admissions at the expense of fit...I think what most upsets me about this post is the fact that it leads prospective pre-meds to think that they have to go to these schools to get into medical school.</p>
<p>There are plenty of reasons to ignore this list - first is the obvious point that the attrition rate for pre-meds is extraordinarily high. Most kids who start pre-med won't ever take the MCAT, let alone ever apply. It makes no sense for them to be stuck at a school that is not their best fit simply b/c their goals have changed. Second, people tend to be most productive when their happiest, thus choosing based on fit, is certainly most likely to find the best environment for a student. Third is the fact that there plenty of individuals who for whatever reason can't or simply choose not to aim for matriculation at any of the schools on your list, yet still have plenty of hope for getting into medical school. Whether it's money, academic record in HS, or lack of desire to go to any of these school, for many people the Ivies are not an option.</p>
<p>Now let me be clear that undergraduate school is not a null value in medical school admissions - as I hope it's clear that I'm saying school choice does matter (but it matters little to the admissions committees). And there are some places that are better for pre-meds than other places, but the difference comes in things like pre-med advising, plenty of available research and volunteering opportunities, interview preparation, and the chance to closely interact with professors for LOR possibilities. These and other factors are largely impossible to quantify and actually rank. Further all these things are typically available at most schools, but at some there may be a greater onus on the student to actively seek these resources out, while at other schools they may be more visible.</p>
<p>
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In ANY CASE, this is still a useless metric, as schools that screen (Christopher Newport University) can achieve numbers of 100%.
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</p>
<p>Exactly. I had the opportunity to speak with a professor who headed the premed society at a medium sized private U. When I asked about their rates, he informed me that looking at acceptance rates was totally meaningless. He continued to state that at his school, if one looked at students who were actually "good" candidates, then they would have near 100%--however they do not screen and will allow application from any student, thus their rate is much lower than some "equivalent" institutions.</p>
<p>Although, as usual, BDM and bigred make a lot of sense, I think they do overstate the case against this list. True, the absolute admissions percentages are so confounded by selection effects as to be meaningless. However, this does point out that schools with very high admissions standards, and rigorous academics, send lots of students to medical school each year. This means that you will find well developed premed advising, and well worn pathways to top medical schools at such colleges.</p>
<p>Many of the schools also publish details about admissions including mean MCAT and gpa figures for applicants and admitted students. This becomes very helpful. If you are about an average admit to a college (based on standardized tests, which is about all you have to go on), then assume you will be about an average student at the college. Look for the fate of an average student at the college (say, someone with a gpa equal to the overall average for undergraduates at that college). How do people with this gpa, from that college, fare when the apply to medical school? If a high percentage get in, then you are likely to be in good shape for getting in. If only half of such students get in, then you are not facing very good odds if you go there.</p>
<p>If you are in the upper percentiles of admitted students to a college, then look at med school sucess of those in upper percentiles of undergrads.</p>
<p>A limitation of this approach at places such as those discussed: the standardized test scores are truncated at the top, and a huge proportion of the admitted students have such high scores that it is difficult to determine whether you are in the upper 25% or the upper 10%, because they are all compressed into the same narrow range of scores.</p>
<p>Minor detail. Brown's 90% admissions rate does not include the PLME students. It is reported for those who take the MCAT and apply to medical school. The PLME students do not do this. If one were to include the PLME, which would be misleading, Brown's admissions rate would look considerably higher, but it would be meaningless.</p>
<p>They're large, competitive schools with literally nonexistent advising, a disproportionately premedical student body, and in UCB's case, no nearby academic clinical facilities for patient exposure. Research at those places is phenomenal but hard for premeds to access relative to a smaller school. Add to that that students there tend to be obsessed with remaining in the highly selective UC system for medical school.</p>
<p>I grew up in Berkeley, and the plurality of my friends were UCB premeds.</p>
<p>I agree that this list will give high school students the wrong idea about undergrad. OSU might not have a great matriculation rate to med school, but I feel that I am going to be successful due to the opportunities here. Children's Columbus is right nearby, and I'm going to be very dedicated as a volunteer there. At some other school, a student might really be interested in a unique major specific to health professions (USC's Health Promotions program). At another school, there might be a special undergrad research opportunity that the student is eligible for. Really, the advantage of any particular school are specific to each individual student, based on abilities, interests, and personality. Obviously, if those prestigious schools you listed are a good match for the student, and they can afford it, then they should go there, but it's been such a problem that high school seniors only focus on the really elite schools, and then are very disappointed.</p>