<p>Wonderful post, riverrunner - maybe should be required reading for all college applicants. “Attitude” can not only help kids make the most of their college experiences, but also all those experiences that follow!</p>
<p>While attitude does make a difference, motivated kids who are at the top of the heap athletically or academically will tend to have more “problems” just because they care more. I recall my D being amazed to see that when a number of students in one of her classes discovered that a teacher had mistakenly assigned them zeros for an assignment they had completed, they just shrugged their shoulders and did nothing to try to rectify the situation. The difference in their final grade didn’t matter enough to them for them to bother with the process of finding the necessary documentation, going to see the teacher after hours, etc. They didn’t have a better attitude than the students who found a copy of the work, sought out the teacher, and resolved this “problem”. A simplistic example, but it can be extrapolated to more complex situations.</p>
<p>In addition, highly intelligent students can intimidate insecure teachers, and may be victimized by that teacher when others won’t be. My S had difficulty like that with a particular middle school teacher, but my D didn’t. She’s not less problematic as a person nor more optimistic, but her way of being in that classroom didn’t push the teacher’s buttons. The reverse was the case with a track coach they both had. S wasn’t a great athlete and so didn’t have to deal with many problems with the man that D has had to deal with. It didn’t mean he was more easy-going. Even thinking of families, there are factors outside a person’s control which make one member the darling (first born, only son, cutest, etc.) and another the scapegoat. </p>
<p>Also, high-achieving students and athletes sometimes become targets for jealousy-driven behavior from peers. Let’s face it, people like to bring down those on the top. So if a runner is the slowest on the team, he’ll probably run into fewer problems than the faster kid simply because he won’t be stepping on any toes. </p>
<p>So post #20 is generally very good advice, but we shouldn’t leap to judgment either just because our child has had no trouble and others did.</p>
<p>And lastly, let’s face it. If you’re a high school athlete who is already Olympic trial caliber, you will probably need to be much more circumspect in finding a coach and a program because that decision can have greater life-altering repercussions for you (getting injured and not making the Olympics) than for an average D1 athlete. My D needed fit, but she didn’t need that level of fit!</p>
<p>The GFG, I believe your original statement had to do with athletes not being serious if they choose the school first, not the coach. By your own admission, you chose the schools first by winnowing choices down to 5 top universities in this country. Given that scenario, NOW you can pick coaches. Not disagreeing with you, just picking on you a little bit. We took almost the same approach except my daughter chose location first, i.e., she wouldn’t move out of state. Still, we had a few great universities to choose from. After that selection was made, there was only one university that stood out, and it was because of the caliber of the coach and his program and the way he approached academics vs athletic commitments. The other excellent universities (we were told) have a way of funneling their athletes into certain limited majors. We weren’t interested in having her athletic life take precedence over a commitment to long-term career planning and preparation.</p>
<p>To pick on you back in a friendly way, beawinner, I never used the word “first” in my initial post. Nor was I countering any motto with the word “first” in it. Rather, I was addressing the mantra “choose the school, not the coach,” which sounded exclusionary to me. There’s no chronological ordering implied by that phrase. The rationale given by its prononents was that the coach could leave, or the athlete could get injured and no longer compete, but the school would still be the school, so that was where all the emphasis needed to be placed during the decision-making process. After a few comments which clarified people’s positions as more of a prioritizing concept rather than an either / or concept, I concluded that most of us probably agree on this.</p>
<p>I am sad to be hearing that some great kids are getting mis-led by coaches…</p>
<p>A friend’s student did choose a school over 3 others–one ofthe remianing 3 they liked alot, and the two higher ranked schools (coaches) were giving them the feeling that all was not being said…</p>
<p>Some schools they eliminated seemed “sneaky”…</p>
<p>D chose this way:</p>
<p>Coach
Team
School? you mean they have a school to:)</p>
<p>obviously a bit tongue and cheek. and school is very important to her. but at the end of the day it really was coach and team first, then school. most of her mentors advised her to pick the school first and there were a couple great schools that were more interesting from a location stand point. but she really likes the coach and team she picked and how they picked her!</p>
<p>I advised her to follow her heart and her passion…and when your passion is the sport, you’re going to pick the coach and team first.</p>
<p>Pacheight, I sincerely hope it works out for your D. </p>
<p>My D loved the D1 school she chose, the head coach, the assistant coach, the team, and the program in her major (which is difficult to find). The day before National Signing Day the head coach and assistant coach both resigned for positions elsewhere. The AD called the recruits and told them they would not be receiving their NLIs–everything would be up to the new coach when he/she is hired. </p>
<p>My D did not even receive a call since she is a recruited walk-on, verbally assured by the coach of a position on the team, but no money. Talked to the AD and verified that D’s name is on the list of potential recruits that will be given to the new coach when he/she is hired. There is no question of following the old coach to the coach’s new school as it does not have D’s major. Talked to a friend who is a DII coach and this situation is not unusual at all.</p>
<p>soccertrack: Wow, what a terrible blow! Did this happen last year or just recently? I hope it all works out for your D too! What did she do or what does she plan to do? Was she a recruited walk-on for one sport or both soccer and track?</p>
<p>Thanks GFG. It happened this year, earlier this month. D’s primary sport is soccer. Track is her cross-training sport, and she is not good enough to compete at the college level. </p>
<p>D still loves the college she picked. She was admitted EA in the fall and is planning to matriculate. She has researched her chosen field and found that she must get a PhD in it to be employed. She has already picked out the graduate school she wants, and feels that the undergraduate program she has chosen will help her be accepted there. She hopes that the new coach will want her, too.</p>
<p>That is a good reminder and a powerful story …thanks for sharing.
Glad to hear your student has found a “home” in a new school. Wow–through PhD level…thats exciting.</p>
<p>Sorry fogfog, I didn’t write clearly enough. D is sticking with the original school, even though her coaches left, for the reasons mentioned above. She can only hope that the new coach, whoever he/she turns out be, will like her as the old coaches did.</p>
<p>This article applies to less than 10% of coaches in the NCAA ranks. Most NCAA coaches are honest, keep to their word, and are in the business for the kids. This is even more the case at the Division 3 level.</p>
<p>SoccerTrack: What a sobering situation. Thank goodness your daughter still likes the original school, but what a huge let-down. One of those “character building” times in life, and your daughter sounds like she made the choice that was ultimately right for her - and that is really the most important thing, and obviously, more important than any sport. My fingers are crossed that the new coach will pay attention to the former coach’s list of recruits, and give her a chance. Good luck - and thank you sharing this scenario.</p>
<p>Mando- I don’t agree. The coaches are recruiting at least 5 times more kids than they can “slot”, especially in D3. The boards are littered with some sadder but wiser D3 prospects. You have NOTHING in writing, and no recourse if it doesn’t work out. I think any parent with a child being recruited should read as many posts as possible, have a serious talk with their child about being polite, but also VERY CLEAR and not afraid to ask the hard questions as in “What percent of students that you recommend are accepted” and “can you get admissions to do a walk-thru or preread before I APPLY TO YOUR INSTITUTION ed?” We had a near disaster, and it looks like there is a bright qualified Amherst hopeful on the board who was very disappointed this fall…</p>
<p>oldB I think it’s good advice that parents of juniors should read these forums but I don’t see an abusive recruiting system by coaches. What I think is happening is that there are a lot of hopeful students and parents who misinterpret a coaches “interest” as recruiting. </p>
<p>I define the two like this:</p>
<p>Recruiting:</p>
<p>multiple college coaches say they want you to play for them (at least 2)
at least one head coach is directly interacting with you (email and phone calls)
you experience a little bending of the NCAA rules on coach to athlete contact before july 1st
there is real contact and real conversations (email, phone, in-person) and all happening while your athlete is a junior in high school (or earlier)</p>
<p>Interest:</p>
<p>none of the above
form letters and emails
you call them (email, etc) more than they call you.
you go to them vs them coming to you (or inviting you to visit, which means airline tickets, 48 hours visits, etc.)
no “real” offers prior to Sep 1. (and by real I mean statements such as “when it’s time that we can offer you a spot at “college name” we will make you that offer”)</p>
<p>the percentage of athletes actually being “recruited” is a lot smaller than the field that is experiencing “interest”</p>
<p>p.s. this doesn’t mean that a lot athletes experiencing interest don’t get on a team, they often do…it’s just a lot more of an uncertain process, but that process is not unfair, I believe very, very few coaches are behaving badly.</p>
<p>Pacheight–your descriptions fall short because there is so much variation by sport, by gender, by division, and by individual coach and school. What is funny to me is that based on your categories, D would have assumed (and almost did assume) that there was very little interest by a certain school when in actuality D was a priority recruit for them–a fact you yourself helped us to understand, LOL! We are not dumb people and D had plenty of interest from other schools too, so this was not merely a product of our inexperience. Recruitment is not an easy game for athletes and parents to play because there are very few rules and so much is simply not that obvious.</p>
<p>Another Cautionary Recruiting Story:</p>
<p>My child was a “lesser” recruit who did get coach support for an ED I admission to a pricey private school far from home; signed a NLI but no actual scholarship awarded. The potential for a later scholarship was there depending on performance. My child was thrilled, with the program, the coach AND the school. This is an athletic league that likes to emphasis the “student” part of student athlete.</p>
<p>BIG surprise during spring of senior year to see that the coach had resigned. I followed the athletic site so that’s how we found out. It was a couple of weeks before an assistant coach, the only person left on the staff finally called to offer reassurance. He hoped to get the head position but ultimately did not. </p>
<p>My child worked hard and did all the right things and had great personal, team and league success. For naught as it turns out as the new coach showed no intention of granting a scholarship to my child. A lot of other “stuff” went on, too, but such is life. Hard life lessons. The uglier underbelly of Division I sports.</p>
<p>Vulture - did your child stay on the team with the new coach, even without a scholarship?</p>
<p>Vulture
I guess the upside was your student got in/played
the downside no fin aid for the sports…which is a shame</p>
<p>OldBatesieDoc</p>
<p>It is hard to know how much of this is real recruiting vs interest
especially because there is no risk for the coaches to talk to tons and tons of athletes–its great for the apps and there is no commitment for the general conversations.</p>
<p>WHat I want to know is when is it appropriate for the kid to ask the straight questions…I shoudl think this can only come July-ish when the jr yr transcript and SATs and ACTs are in hand…
Can’t imagine without solid 2200+ scores that an ivy coach can promise anything, right? So wouldn’t spring jr yr “asking the hard questions” be too early?</p>