<p>Of course, it’s also possible that the courses at the other schools just aren’t as rigorous as the ones at the arrogant universities.</p>
<p>Can’t see why it can’t be all 3.</p>
<p>I would say that if their courses ARE more rigorous and assuming they already give a substantial portion of their students need-based aid, then it’s probably not appropriate to call it ‘greed’, either. It might just be sensible.</p>
<p>Regarding remedial courses, there are very few colleges which have no remedial courses. Even some of the most selective colleges, like Princeton, have remedial courses ([MAT</a> 100](<a href=“https://www.math.princeton.edu/undergraduate/course/mat100/]MAT”>https://www.math.princeton.edu/undergraduate/course/mat100/)), while others, like Harvard, appear to hide the remedial course work in a two semester sequence combined with the normal introductory course ([Math</a> Ma and Mb](<a href=“http://www.registrar.fas.harvard.edu/courses-exams/courses-instruction/mathematics]Math”>http://www.registrar.fas.harvard.edu/courses-exams/courses-instruction/mathematics)).</p>
<p>Yes, it is a sad commentary on high school education in the US when even the most selective colleges have to offer remedial courses.</p>
<p>ucbalumnus What does it say about the elite universities that accept students who require remedial courses when there are plenty of students who they deny that do not require any remediation. It seems to me a sad commentary that elite institutions are not doing their job in the admission process.</p>
<p>It looks like MAT 100 is pre-calculus, which wouldn’t be remedial at less selective colleges.
Students are only placed into math classes after they’re accepted. If students at elite college require remedial courses, it’s probably because they went to bad high schools and not because they did badly in their high school classes. </p>
<p>Why not create another degree type? If someone really wants the full gen ed experience then go for the BA/BS, but on the flip side why cant a school offer a Bachelors in Accounting, or Bachelors in Engineering, or, etc. Create a two tier system and answer the questions - will students value the extra year? and will employers have a preference?.</p>
<p>Another thought that occurred to me - with as much as we hear there is a shortage of scientist and engineers (I don’t want to start that argument here, so I am just presenting the premise at face value) going to a 3 year degree could potentially free up space for more students and increase output.</p>
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<p>It would still be considered remedial at other colleges. Students intending to major in something like engineering, physics, or math are likely to find that starting college in a math course below calculus is likely to delay graduation beyond eight semesters.</p>
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<p>Shortage of scientists is not a given, particularly for the most popular science major.</p>
<p>Actually, a science major at a school with typical amounts of general education requirements could probably get all of the subject requirements for the major and general education done in six semesters, if all of the free electives were squeezed out. Some majors may have a prerequisite sequence longer than six semesters, though.</p>
<p>For engineering, ABET would not give accreditation to bachelor’s degree programs without humanities and social studies requirements. Even if it did, the long prerequisite sequences may still be the limiting constraint on the length of the degree program.</p>
<p>In NJ there is a website where you type in a CC class and then you can see if another NJ school will accept it and if so, how it will be accepted (will you get core credit for it or will it merely give you elective credit when you transfer it).
So we checked every CC class my kids took to make sure that the credit would transfer in a meaningful way. This worked great for us. </p>
<p>We are also fortunate to live near a particularly excellent CC. </p>
<p>I’ve been saying this for years.</p>
<p>Some schools however, like UChicago & Oberlin DO accept transfer credits including community college, and allow students up to two years of credits.
Saved a lot of money!</p>
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<p>This is very much a YMMV depending on the academic rigor and content of the previous institution’s courses and how closely they match comparable offerings at the new institution.</p>
<p>Knew plenty of community college and 4-year college transfers who ended up having to spend 1 or more years because some of their courses failed to transfer because they lack rigor or don’t match what was offered at Oberlin.*</p>
<p>And credit from foreign language courses is only offered if the incoming student performs satisfactorily on the given foreign language department’s placement exam. </p>
<p>This factor was a reason why a friend found he couldn’t take summer language courses at his public university…their course’s pacing was only half that of our LAC and would meant he wouldn’t be prepared enough to take the placement exam to leapfrog a year as he originally intended. </p>
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<li>Vocational courses such as automotive repair.<br></li>
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<p>“Some schools however, like UChicago & Oberlin DO accept transfer credits including community college, and allow students up to two years of credits.”</p>
<p>I don’t think Oberlin will allow two years of credit anymore, IIRC they tightened that up after D1 came through. Though she stayed four years anyway.</p>
<p>“And credit from foreign language courses is only offered if the incoming student performs satisfactorily on the given foreign language department’s placement exam.”</p>
<p>Maybe things have changed since you attended. D1 received credit from Oberlin for a foreign language course she took at a Community College. She did not take any department placement exam to get that credit, so far as I’m aware. If I’m wrong about that I’ll post back. She may well have needed to take a placement exam if she continued in that language, but in this case she didn’t.</p>
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<p>Thanks for the info, xiggi! I appreciate it. </p>
<p><a href=“http://new.oberlin.edu/office/registrar/transfer-of-credit/”>http://new.oberlin.edu/office/registrar/transfer-of-credit/</a>
(more recent copyright on this page than the link I originally had here)</p>
<p><a href=“http://new.oberlin.edu/office/registrar/ap-ib-credit/”>http://new.oberlin.edu/office/registrar/ap-ib-credit/</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://new.oberlin.edu/office/registrar/ap-ib-credit/chart.dot”>http://new.oberlin.edu/office/registrar/ap-ib-credit/chart.dot</a></p>
<p>Unless I simply totally missed it, I’m surprised nobody’s mentioned that Canada has 3-year bachelor’s programs, but then also a 4-year bachelor’s (honours) option. It would be difficult but not nearly impossible to implement something like that in the US, but employers would have to be cool with bachelor’s degrees equaling less preparation.</p>
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<p>Wow! While mandating the writing requirement to be completed at Oberlin isn’t new, mandating quant proficiency and cultural diversity requirements to be completed at Oberlin IS. </p>
<p>Many classmates who took summer courses to get the quant proficiency and/or some cultural diversity requirements would not be able to do so to fulfill those requirements if they were at Oberlin now. </p>
<p>UBC has 4 year liberal arts degrees (non honors- like chemistry or physics)
Which majors are three year?</p>
<p>@emeraldkity4: UBC (and UVic looks to have the same thing going) seems to be kind of unusual in the Canadian higher ed system that way. So, for example, Simon Fraser, Alberta, Western Ontario, McGill, McMaster, and the Memorial U of Newfoundland all seem, from a quick check of their websites, to have 3- vs. 4-year programs. (Toronto, interestingly, has nearly all of its undergrad programs as BA/Sc Honours with no other option, but a very few that are simply BA/BSc.)</p>
<p>Interesting.
Although the McGill website indicates that their degrees are four years.
Freshman year, which is a foundation program, and three years in their major.</p>