Pros and cons of four-year universities and three-year universities

College Search & Selection
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<p>Most undergrad courses of universities in the U.S. last for four years due to its liberal arts education of their first year, while some undergrad courses of EU, especially those in England, last only for three years due to their lack of liberal arts courses and their much specialized courses. Although American universities are known much better than others in many aspects, some European universities, like those in England, are comparable with them. Some people don't think they need to stay in undergrad for four years, but some other people strongly think they need. </p>

<p>So, what are pros and cons of four-year universities and three-year universities if they are similar in their quality of education?</p>

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<p>The longer 4 year model can be attributed to 2 things:</p>

<ol>
<li>Schooling- The American HS curriculum is relatively broad. A college prep schedule usually involves 4 years of English, 4 of math, 4 of a science, 4 of a language etc… In England, Wales and Northern Ireland (not Scotland for other reasons I won’t go into here), it’s normal to study around 10 subjects until the age of 16 (approx. equivalent to 10th grade- exams are called GCSEs). They then take 3-4 subjects in 11th (called lower 6th, the exams are called AS levels) and then 3 subjects in 12th (upper sixth- A-levels). Exceptionally smart pupils might take 4-5 A-levels. Many pupils will leave education with a handful of GCSEs at 16 to work or do a vocational course at their equivalent of community college. Some leave with none at all. </li>
</ol>

<p>So if you want to study medicine which is (traditionally) an undergrad subject, a typical path would involve Math, Chemistry and Biology at A-level. No English. No languages. No creative arts. If you wanted to study History, a typical selection of subjects would be history, English literature and French. No science or math. But you could do a mix- say Physics, Art & Design and Geography if you wanted and your grades were high enough. So the pre-university education is already narrowed down before studying 1 or 2 subjects exclusively for the 3 years of college. </p>

<p>This would suggest that American students have a breadth but not depth of knowledge, hence requiring an extra year to compensate. </p>

<p>AP exams narrow this gap now as sufficient passes and grades makes entry to a UK uni far easier than the old usual requirement of a year at an American college before starting.</p>

<ol>
<li>The general education requirements of American colleges. Rising out the Classical notion that an educated citizen is ‘well-rounded’ in all the major areas of knowledge. There’s a stereotype in England of the idea of someone being highly knowledgeable in one area and useless in everything else and daily life… As I just mentioned, in England, you are admitted to a particular major (‘course’). If there is more than one major you’d like to study at the same university, you use 2 of your 5 allotted national application choices (UCAS). Great if you know what you want to study. If you aren’t sure or you find the reality different from how you’d envisage it, transferring to a different course/major is usually difficult/impossible. I knew of a student on a physics course who decided she’d rather do archaeology. She had to drop out, reapply and then start back the next academic year as a 1st year again. </li>
</ol>

<p>The general thinking here is that you should learn to write and count at school and that university isn’t the place for remedial work. You can still do languages, usually as an evening class on campus. A few colleges now give you credit for it but usually its an extra to add to your cv (resume). And PE is completely a free choice. Many won’t do any at university. However, Wednesday afternoons have traditionally been lecture free to accommodate teams/sports clubs and there have been protests when administrators have tried to schedule lectures in this block. </p>

<p>In my own experience, I was ready to move on after 3 happy years. It felt time. And most subjects are interdisciplinary in practice (e.g. English lit might include elements of history, philosophy, Italian or Old English etc but they’d all be studied in a literary context). </p>

<p>The idea of having to continue with math or lab sciences- and have them affect my overall grade horrifies me. </p>

<p>However, looking at a contemporary American college catalog, the choice of classes is bewitching. But I think I appreciate that now being a lot older- my life experience is broader and I’d choose very differently from when I was 17. I wonder if I’d end up just picking classes that I’d be comfortable with for the sake of grades again…</p>

<p>Of course, every uni in different in it’s course structure and class offerings and facilities so the above is a very general generalisation. YMMV.</p>

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<p>Your post solved my questions totally. Since I have a specialized knowledge rather than well-rounded one, I prefer British university than American one. Fortunately, I took a lot of AP tests, which will enable me to go to UK undergrad programs.</p>

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<p>Very interesting, highland-poppy. One comment and one question:</p>

<p>1) While many American universities have ‘distribution requirements,’ not all of them do and many that do make it easy to fulfill a science/technology requirement without ever having to take a math or lab sciences class. This is school specific.</p>

<p>2) How does the UK system handle double majors or majors with minors? I understand that most subjects are interdisciplinary in practice, but if you want to major in, say history, and minor in computer science, how does that work?</p>

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<p>M’s Mom: except for a handful of places, it’s just not possible. You may be allowed to do a “joint degree” with, say, History and English, or History and Political Science; or Computer Science and Math, or Computer Science and Engineering. But the combination would be prescribed, they’d be closely related, and you’d have to apply for them.
Interestingly, a few British universities are now trying the “Liberal Arts” approach because some British students find this too restrictive, in the same way some universities have no distribution requirements in the US (although, in the US, it’s not meant to help you craft a super-specialized path, but rather let you open to any subject your curiosity may lead you to, and since it implies intellectual curiosity it’s usually only available at “intellectual” schools.)</p>

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<p>Thanks M’s Mom. I didn’t know that lab science/math was wasn’t always in a hs format. Would that mean a class I did, Science in Society- looking at science communication with the public and the public’s perception of science and society particularly school children, count (in some places)?</p>

<p>In the UK, a double major (50% of one subject, 50% of another) is called usually called ‘joint honours’. You’d have core classes in each subject plus a more limited number of electives than you’d get as a ‘single honors’ (single major) degree. It takes exactly the same amount of time -3 years so you won’t have the same depth of knowledge. If you were taking 2 languages, the usual year abroad (an extra year between years 2 and 3 where you work and/or study in that language) is split into 2 periods of 6 months or so of each. However, the level of work in each subject is the same as for single honour degrees. It isn’t an easier option. However, when comparing it with the US double major, the US option probably gives more depth- although you might pay for it with longer in college. </p>

<p>Joint honors graduates aren’t disadvantaged at all in terms of careers or grad school admissions. Undergraduate pre-professional programs like medicine, nursing, dentistry, vet school, surveying etc tend to be single honours to cover subject knowledge required by the relevant professional body (national licensing board). </p>

<p>Generalising (as ever :slight_smile: ), joint honours are usually taken in 2 STEM subjects or 2 arts/social science subjects e.g. Maths and Computer Science, Sociology and Politics. But nowadays, you could do law and psychology or French and Physics. All depends on the uni. Keele University was a trendsetter for them. </p>

<p>Minors are a relatively new option. The split is around 70% to 30%. The subsidiary subject wouldn’t be sufficient for masters degree entry in itself. Languages or business help add an extra string to a student’s bow- much like an American minor. </p>

<p>And, of course, Oxford, Cambridge and the ancient Scottish universities all have their own set ups…</p>

<p>If you wanted to do History with computer science, you’d need to search for a uni which offers it. A search on UCAS.com shows that 9 colleges offer the combination in some form. But none appear to offer a major/minor. These are all joint honours degrees.</p>

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<p>I think its fascinating how educational practices are evolving at a global level in response to competition and trends elsewhere in the world. We see the US educational model popping up in India and in the middle east, American kids eying British and Canadian options when it’s time to apply for colleges, etc…</p>

<p>“Would that mean a class I did, Science in Society- looking at science communication with the public and the public’s perception of science and society particularly school children, count (in some places)?”</p>

<p>It’s possible - again, school specific. MYSO is probably right in suggesting that it’s the more selective (and probably private) schools that allow more flexibility. I’m not sure its always because they want to honor students’ intellectual curiosity, although that’s probably part of it. I would hazard that they are also more ‘consumer oriented’ than state schools, and competitive with each other, so they tend to allow students more flexibility in crafting their programs.</p>