As a product of the University of California college system, I used to assume that my kids would go there someday as I received a pretty good education and it’s ”relatively” affordable for in-state students. However, many of the high stat kids from D20’s high school will be applying to many private colleges throughout the U.S. and using the UCs as back-up colleges.
Why do you think this is? Is there something about top 50 private colleges that should make them more attractive than the top public colleges?
Well…some of those top 50 schools have very generous need based aid awarding policies…that could bring the cost of attending down to what a UC would cost.
Smaller class sizes and less crowds. We visited Penn State, and I wanted coffee. The line for Starbucks was soooooo long I just gave up. People love that school, but for me it just seemed like everything would be an ordeal, like waiting for buses to get to class. Those are the only downsides that I can think of.
Our California kids went/go to out of state private schools for less money than it would cost us to send them to a live away CSU or UC. The local UC, if they lived at home would be comparable but the CSU requires those in the honors program to live on campus and that makes it way more expensive than what we are paying now (and honors program comes with priority registration and that’s the only way to do that particularly compacted school.) Many of the UC’s are upfront to expect an additional 2 quarters at least to graduate so that also bumps up the cost as well.
If they didn’t get the merit and financial aid needed, we would have been proud to send them to our public universities. I went to one myself. As it is, our kids were able get the small school, discussion based classes, non-compacted liberal arts education they wanted for less at a non-state school. They have strong relationships with their professors which isn’t impossible at a state school but certainly easier to get right off the bat at a LAC. Plus, lots of perks like living-learning communities, more support for travel abroad, etc.
“However, many of the high stat kids from D20’s high school will be applying to many private colleges throughout the U.S. and using the UCs as back-up colleges.”
Until they get results and compare the costs. Unless you are in an extremely rich area, a lot of those high stat kids will pick the UCs in the end. Most 17 year olds have dreams of going elsewhere, and there are no guarantees of getting into UCB/UCLA. What does your high school list as college destinations for the 2018 graduates?
“What does your high school list as college destinations for the 2018 graduates?”
Her SoCal HS graduating class is around 400, while many kids will apply to the CSU/UCs, the top 50 to 70 seem to apply heavily to the ivies, USC, Washu, Vanderbilt, Duke, Tulane, Boston privates, NYU, etc and seem to favor these colleges. Most are full pay. Just wondering if these families know something that I’m not thinking of, such as graduating on time, smaller classes, better alumni network, more internships oppos, etc
Top 50 private colleges will cost more than your IS public universities unless a student qualifies for financial aid and merit. Plenty of non-top 50 privates do offer great merit money.
We do not qualify for financial aid, so for us, private schools and OOS publics are much more expensive than our in-state public schools, even with merit.
Private universities will offer a more intimate campus feel, smaller class sizes, more individualized advising, and probably a more diverse geographic mix of students. There may be great alumni networks and great research opportunities, depending on the major.
If it is mainly wealthy full pay families, then it is not a surprise that they will use money to greatly expand their kids’ choice of colleges, rather than be limited by financial limits like most students and families. E.g. NYU (with its poor FA and limited merit scholarships) is not a realistic application for students from non wealthy families (a high reach at best for merit scholarships for top end students), but wealthy families can include it in the application list.
Most public colleges, the flagships anyway, are large. Even if they are in a remote area, they become a city in themselves with restaurants and theater and concerts. They often have big time sports, either at the school or professional teams in the area. Most large publics have all the majors you can think of, and allow switching between the schools.
Some of the top 20 schools are rural and may have more limited offerings, such as no engineering or music schools. Not all are, of course. For me, a school with fewer than 3000 students is just too small.
If you live in California, you (or your kids) would have to decide just how far away they want to go. It’s a long way to Colby Maine or Williamstown Mass. Planes, trains and automobiles.
In 2017 UC Berkeley faced 150 mill budget deficit. They admitted more out of state students and cut budget to help with the deficit. They are in better shape now, but it is after a lot of fund raising and cutting programs. As an OOS why would I pay the same for a public school that is beholden to a state’s budget when I could be a full pay at a top private that has the best facility and wider course offerings? If we lived in CA, I may consider to send my kid to Berkeley because of discount, but it is not a value when you compare it to Cornell, NU or Duke.
I think it is a matter of the area in which you live and your background. We live in an area where publics are far more common. Most kids here want to stay in the south and we have plenty of big SEC schools to choose from. Secondly many parents of even high income families like the instate deal we have. Essentially many students get free tuition at any instate university or 80% of instate rates paid by the state’s lottery system.
Personally having attended a small liberal arts school I found it stifling and limited, so I have pushed for the big state publics where the offerings of majors seem limitless. Now where I grew up private was more common but thats the NE.
Basically we have all different thoughts on the matter.
@thumper1 what I’m seeing is the top kids that do get in to these top private colleges and UCLA/UCB are choosing to go private. My D20 will likely be one of those high stat kids and god willing will have options between UCs, other state public flagships and some private colleges. Any insight is appreciated.
@thumper1 wrote “Well…some of those top 50 schools have very generous need based aid awarding policies…that could bring the cost of attending down to what a UC would cost.”
To which I would add that some of those - outside the IVYs and a few others - also have generous merit aid as well.
As a result, many of the students who are fortunate enough to be accepted to both top privates and public flagships find top privates to be less, or even significantly less, expensive than instate public flagships.
This might be shocking to many on CC who revere private colleges but UC’s are very hard to get into–almost all of them except maybe Riverside and Merced. Many many high stats kids get denied, certainly by UCB and UCLA but also by Davis and Santa Barbara, San Diego even Sant Cruz this last cycle. I know 2 kids denied at UCB and UCLA but ended up at Brown, another one denied at UCLA but accepted at Vanderbilt, many others I know chose Michigan and Tulane full pay because the only UC they got into was Santa Cruz. Cornell is another one where kids I know have gotten in after being denied by UC’s.
And then there are the super smart kids who get into the privates but still choose UC–Berkeley over Princeton full pay–yes I swear it’s true-- and 3 chose Berkeley over Northwestern, Berkeley over Carleton.
I’m from the east coast–prep school and top LAC-- so I understand the pull of prestige that these schools hold back there. And for sure it’s a different experience than a large public university but for those who do send their kids to UC’s they do not have inferior “facilities or course offerings”–that is most likely a comment from someone who hasn’t ever visited these beautiful campuses and seen first hand the diversity, the vibrancy, and the academic excellence they offer. And yes, it is not only possible, but easy to graduate in four years. YMMV
I agree if you had to pay the same amount, a high quality private generally offers a better deal than an OOS public. However, there are many exceptions. For example, I would choose a Berkeley CS degree over the same degree at Northwestern or Duke any day.
Finances is the biggest reason to choose a cheaper public U over a private one.
The elite tier of public flagships make it hard to look at the many lesser private schools so many on CC need to consider relative to their flagship. So, it depends on your state. Why spend more on a school with fewer available courses, no grad offerings et al. Honors programs can offer many of the so called advantages of private schools. The elite students, ie those with equivalent stats/ability, often end up at their flagship U.
I guess cons would include sharing a school with many more students and those merely good instead of better. One could list many pros and cons- depending on the individual public and private school being compared.
From what I know of the UCs, the first two might be concerns - it’s worth looking at those closely. The 4 year grad rate of 75%-ish for the top 2 UCs. You can look at course catalogs for class sizes.
The last two on your list likely vary from school to school, and kid to kid. Is there a formal (electronic directory at least) alumni network at those UCs? A mentoring program? Are summer internships made available to students by the university itself, and/or is there a source for them in the career center’s offerings?