Pros and Cons

Parent Cafe
1

<p>My friend's s is a public school sophomore from the northeast who has employed a "mucho" expensive private college advisor. My son is also a soph and is at attending a rigorous prep school in the south and we will be using our school's college office. </p>

<p>Expensive advisor has discussed the following scenario</p>

<p>Oct - Junior year - PSAT
Jan - Junior year - SAT I
March - Junior Year Sat I again</p>

<p>My school's counselors suggest the following:</p>

<p>Oct - Junior Year - PSAT
March - Junior Year - SAT I
Oct - Senior year - SAT I (again if necessary).</p>

<p>Both students will be in precalc during their junior year.</p>

<p>In addition, mucho expensive counselor has said absolutely no to ACT's while my school has suggested them for April and possibly September, if necessary.</p>

<p>Can I have some thoughts from this erudite group.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>P.S. Our kids are nowhere near ivy league caliber - Bucknell, Lehigh, Union, BU level as eiher reach or match. (too early to know).</p>

2

<p>I would add a PSAT sophmore year. Worked for my D. Also, be ready to take SAT IIs whenever a class ends in that area. Get them while they are fresh. D took many, many practice SATs. Took for real in late Jr. year and again Oct Sr. year. Also took practice tests for all SAT IIs.</p>

<p>D is NMS finalist, 1530, 800, 790, 760.</p>

3

<p>Kids did take PSAT Oct soph year and plan SAT II's in May and June of Junior year to coincide with AP exams and end of year finals. The only difference is timing of SAT - Jan/March or March/following Oct.</p>

4

<p>Did S take a PSAT this year as a soph? If 180+, then I would recommend studing hard this summer for the PSAT to see if he can make NMSF. If that's the case, then I'd immediately follow with the SAT since the tricks are still fresh in his mind in the fall of Jr year. </p>

<p>The ACT seems to work better for kids who are more right-brained, so high-priced GC is wacko. All schools want the best-scoring kids they can get to boost their own ratings, so they'll happily accept a strong ACT over a mediocre SAT. Moreover, you can sign up for the ACT and NOT list a high school name or colleges for score reporting. That way, only you and S ever know if you took the test. Of course, if the score is 36, then broadcast it widely. :)</p>

5

<p>Taking the ACT is a win-win. You don't need to report the scores if SAT is better. According to the conversion chart (if it's reliable), D's ACT score was the equivalent of 100 points higher than her best combined SATM and SATV, which put her at the median for her school instead of Q1 with SAT. In addition, the subscore for science showed her strength in that area.</p>

<p>A practice PSAT in soph year is a good idea. Our school pays for all students to take PLAN during soph year and PSAT during jr. year.</p>

6

<p>Two rounds of SAT in Jr year seems a little much. Early sitting in Sr year leaves another chance if needed at mid Sr year. I don't think you'll see any real change from Jan to Mar of Jr year. Take practice tests instead.</p>

7

<p>Agree with your school's counselor. My S took SAT in March and May jr. year. The March was my mistake, as I had signed him up for it thinking that was what he was "supposed" to do. No real difference in score between those two tests. I would say, [ul][<em>]do Soph PSAT if your school arranges it automatically; otherwise, don't go out of your way to do it[</em>]Jr. Oct. PSAT[<em>]Jr. year May SAT I [</em>]definitely try the ACT somewhere in the Jr. year time frame; if scores exceed SAT I, go with these and avoid the need for SAT II in many cases [*]if you and S are happy with May SAT and/or ACT, he is done. If not, can prep over summer and do an October test[/ul] Just my humble opinion.</p>

8

<p>At our HS, all students take PSATs as sophomores and juniors Both my kids took SATs in Jan of junior year. My son (who is a very high scorer on standardized tests) took it in spring of his sophomore year, too, although I wouldn't recommend this for most students. His January of junior year score was high enough that he did not need to take SATs again after Jan. </p>

<p>My daughter, who sounds more like your son, took the SATs in January of junior year (she had studied over the previous summer) and scored lower than she did on her PSATs in October of junior year (1260 on the SAT versus the equivalent of 1330 on the PSAT). She studied some more and took it again in March, receiving a 1380 which she (and I) felt was sufficient for the colleges she was aiming for, and she did not take it again. </p>

<p>There are two advantages to this strategy (if it works out for you). She did not need to further stress about preparing for SATs after her junior year, and and she also knew what the scores she would be using to apply with were, so she knew which colleges were realistic targets for her before her senior year.</p>

<p>In her case, she was very busy during the summer before senior year and the fall of junior year. It made life much simpler and easier not to have to retake the SATs and finalize her college list as a senior. </p>

<p>The tradeoff in doing it this way is that there is a chance that scores will go up when retaking as a senior and that the list of colleges which are realistic targets will expand. In my daughter's case, she felt that the stress and aggravation of retaking would not be worth it for her, as she was happy with her scores for the schools she was interested in. Obviously, for students needing to raise their scores to get into the range for the schools they are interested in, the situation would be different.</p>

<p>In any case, I don't see the disadvantage of taking the SAT in January of junior year, as it would just mean that the student took it three times if they ended up retaking as a senior, and I believe that three times is not considered excessive for the SATs.</p>

<p>Edit - Neither of my kids took the ACT, as it was not common around here at the time. I have no idea how my daughter would have done on it - many people have reported greater success for some kids on it vs. SAT.</p>

9

<p>Like your son, my son goes to a college prep school. Counselors there "strongly advise" (read "require") all students to take these tests:
Sophomore Year: Oct. PSAT (for practice)
Junior Year: Oct. PSAT, both SAT and ACT in the spring
Senior Year: repeat SAT and/or ACT only if needed</p>

10

<p>I am a strong advocate of the ACT for everyone as some kids do much better on it. My S who did great on the PSAT just missed National Merit, did not do will on SAT but did great on the ACT 1st time. He had taken the SAT twice with only a 1340 and he was a solid A student in a difficult top school. If it were not for the ACT he would not have gotten into his college. My D however did pretty much the same on both tests. I have heard of quite a few students who did better on ACT's. Also it can be used in place of SAT II's for many colleges. You can take them multiple times and only send the ones you want which is also a plus. My D has a friend who scored 32 on his ACT but only mid 500's on V for old SAT and 800M. He too took the SAT twice and ACT only once. You have nothing to loose and only something to gain.</p>

11

<p>Another aside on SAT. Many kids score an extra 100 points on SAT from Jr to Senior year without much prep, just maturity.</p>

12

<p>I'm with the consensus of this crowd - go with your school's counselor but think about a soph PSAT and where to slot the ACT. SATs plus ACTs plus SAT IIs can be a bit too much to take. And as I've posted ad nauseum. . you do not have to indicate any schools for score repots when taking the ACT. Wait and see how your S does, then make a decision about reporting.</p>

13

<p>Here's dd's schedule:</p>

<p>PSAT- took that October of Jr. years (if I had it to do again, she would have taken it in Oct of her soph year also).</p>

<p>SAT- May (so that she will have completed as much math as possible</p>

<p>AP exams - May</p>

<p>SAT 2 - June (if they are offered in June)</p>

<p>SAT repeat if needed - October Sr. year</p>

<p>Additional AP exams- May Sr. year.</p>

<p>Additional SAT 2 if needed- May or June Sr. year.</p>

<p>ACT dependent on outcome of first SAT test scores.</p>

14

<p>Hey she already said her kid took the Soph yr PSAT, guys!</p>

<p>I think you can play it a bit by ear. Just do one Jr year SATI. Jan to Mar is unlikely to make a difference so it's a waste. Then, just take another if you want to try to raise your score. </p>

<p>dd got a 1490 in Jr. year and decided she did not want to retake. </p>

<p>It's not common in CA for ppl to take ACT and we didn't. Maybe just take it if you are not doing well on the SAT. Otherwise, it is just too much to keep taking and retaking all these tests. There's SATII's too, you know.</p>

15

<p>We did the PSAT/SAT/SATII thing and then discovered the ACT - DD took it her JR year as a practice test - due to no prep time - and scores not reported anywhere but to us - bit it worked out well - she retook it early fall of her SR year and did well enough that we actually submitted ACT and SAT's to the schools she applied to. She did better on the ACT in general - just a better test for her. (she was the ONLY student in our area to take the ACT!!! - makes NO sense to me at all.)</p>

<p>All her apps were submitted by Nov 1st - and she had all her acceptances very early in the process - her 1st choice school invited her into the honors program - they told us based on her ACT scores - so it was well worth it.</p>

<p>The advisor who says NO way to the ACT is full of bunk - many kids score better on the ACT because of it's curriculum driven make up. So....YES.....it is worth taking for sure.</p>

<p>For those not real familiar with the ACT - as it seems to be regionally distinguished - should at least take a shot at it - what does one have to loose - it is not reported unless you want it to be - at least try it - you may be pleasently surprised.</p>

16

<p>My junior son did the psat soph. and junior years, did the SAT I yesterday, will do the ACT in April and then SATagain in June. We followed this schedule with my daughter (minus the ACT) and it seemed to work well. The March ACT score was kind of low but just having that score and visiting a couple of colleges motivated her to actually study for the June SAT. </p>

<p>I prefer to have all the tests done before summer break so Son will know what schools are more of a match so that he can concentrate on the application process in the Fall.</p>

17

<p>It's nice to get the SAT out of the way during junior year if possible. I took it twice the spring of junior year, with a Princeton Review course shoved in the middle... didn't help me at all, I got exactly the same score, but I did finish the verbal sections much faster (but not any better). Since I got the same score after a prep course, and it was high enough for me, I decided there was no reason to take it again. This is especially nice if the child is involved in a fall activity such as a sport, or in my case, marching band, that takes up a large amount of time.</p>

<p>I also recommend the PSAT at all possible opportunities. My [public] high school gave it to fresh/sophs/jrs, and gave seniors the day off that day. Some underclassmen took the day off too, but for the competitive students, the sitting jr year was their 3rd shot.</p>

<p>I never really looked into the ACT. Thought about it for fall senior year, but again decided the SAT scores were high enough that they wouldn't keep me out of any school I was applying to. I do know people who scored significantly higher on the ACT than the SAT though.</p>

18

<p>Sigh. I'm sorry. But does anyone else feel exhausted just reading this thread? I wish our kids didn't have to go through all of this testing.</p>

19

<p>hehe, my brain does hurt...my D;s counselor suggested she take ACT (she did well on the PLAN test, and even though we are in Calif, many students are her school take it),</p>

<p>I think the high priced guru;s advice is kind of screwy, and I am wondering what else they are suggesting..</p>

20

<p>Carolyn - I totally agree with you - college admissions has gotten wayyyy tooo crazy - maybe we need to turn back the clock to yesteryear - was a much simpler life back then and getting into college was a walk in the park - I sigh with you.</p>