<p>I am going into my senior year of high school, and am looking at applying to some of the top engineering schools in the country, including MIT, Stanford, and Cal Tech. However, I don't really have any idea as to what my chances are. Here is some information about me:</p>
<p>From: Brighton, Michigan
Race: Caucasian, Male
Class Rank: ~35 / 467 Public HS (no weighted grades)
ACT: 35
SAT: 1600 (770 writing)
SAT II: 2360 (800 math 2, 800 chemistry, 760 US History)
National Chemistry Olympiad Honors (Top 150 on national test)
National Merit Scholar commended, possibly semi-finalist</p>
<p>Attended:
Purdue Seminar for Top Engineering Prospects
Boys State (elected to state representative)
Michigan Math & Science Scholars (U of M Ann Arbor)
Michigan Camp CAEN (U of M Ann Arbor)</p>
<p>EC:
Church Youth Group (I have been doing videos, etc. for 4 years)
Tae Kwon Do - 11,12
Team America Rocketry Challenge - 11,12
Science Olympiad - 11,12</p>
<p>Senior Year Schedule:
AP Biology
AP Physics
AP Literature
AP Calculus BC
AP Statistics
Honors Quantitative Analysis at Eastern Michigan University (Dual enrollment, sophomore level chemistry class with lab)</p>
<p>I am also probably applying to University of Michigan - Ann Arbor engineering, and Columbia Engineering (Columbia has sent me quite a bit of mail telling me that I would be a competitive applicant for their engineering program). </p>
<p>Any information as to how competitive of an applicant I would be at any of the aforementioned schools would be very much appreciated.</p>
<p>do a quick search on what EC's are competive at those schools. Then look at yours. Then decide where they fit compared to what accepted candidates have. Then apply elsewhere.</p>
<p>Maybe that sounded a bit harsh, so let me retract the comment about "apply elsewhere". Apply to those schools if you want, you are only risking some money and the time it takes you to fill out the apps. And you won't spend the rest of your life wondering "what if".</p>
<p>But the 3 schools you listed are tops in the country and are among the most competitive in admissions. Your class rank isn't great, but your SATs show you are bright enough to do well. The problem is, these schools are <em>flooded</em> with applicants who are just as bright as you. So they turn to other criteria to make a decision: essays, letters of rec, ECs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
In addition to academic excellence and intellectual vitality, we are interested in students who have made significant contributions to the life of their school or community. We do not favor one type of activity over another; nor is it necessary to participate in a large number of activities. An exceptional experience in one or two activities demonstrates your passion more than minimal participation in five or six clubs. We want to see the impact your participation has had on that club, in your school, or in the larger community. With extracurricular activities, a sustained depth of commitment is more important than a long list of clubs you have joined.
<p>Thank you for the honest response, that is what I am looking for.</p>
<p>At the end of my post, I mentioned U of M engineering, and Columbia engineering. I noticed you mentioned "the 3 schools you listed"; do you have any insight into my chances of admission to those two schools?</p>
<p>Also, supposing I had exceptional "other criteria" (essays, letters of rec), would I have a shot at those schools despite my weak ECs? </p>
<p>As a side note, I would like to thank you for including that quotation from another post, it will definitely help me to shape any essay about my activities (to show the depth of my involvement in my community through church).</p>
<p>Also, sorry for not including this in my last post, but if you think that those schools are out of my league, what would your idea of a more likely reach be for an engineering school? </p>
<p>My reasoning in applying to those schools was this: </p>
<p>I feel that I am almost guaranteed admission to U of M Ann Arbor (correct me if I am wrong) because I have participated in a couple of their programs, have received multiple invitations for admissions information sessions, am from in-state, U of M has a rolling admissions program which I plan on applying to within two or three weeks, and I have many friends who have been admitted to U of M with much, much less stellar credentials. (However, I don't think any of them applied to engineering, which is why I am asking what my chances are.)</p>
<p>Considering I am interested in engineering, and also that my admission to U of M is nearly guaranteed, what reason do I have to apply to any school with a worse engineering program that will cost me more than twice as much? The few schools with engineering programs that are better than U of M's include Stanford, MIT, and Cal Tech, etc.; these are really the only schools that I can see the additional cost of tuition being worth it for the education. </p>
<p>The reason I am planning on applying to Columbia Fu Foundation is in case I decide that I want a broader, more liberal arts based education, I have an option. I figured I have pretty good chances at getting into Columbia's Engineering school because they told me so through mail that I didn't ask for. </p>
<p>Correct me if I am wrong (which I probably am) about anything I have said.</p>
<p>Could you tell us your GPA? Because your rank is kinda low considering how high your test scores are, which makes me think that your GPA may be lower.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Considering I am interested in engineering, and also that my admission to U of M is nearly guaranteed, what reason do I have to apply to any school with a worse engineering program that will cost me more than twice as much? The few schools with engineering programs that are better than U of M's include Stanford, MIT, and Cal Tech, etc.; these are really the only schools that I can see the additional cost of tuition being worth it for the education.
[/quote]
I agree with your reasoning here. And especially for engineering. Engineering degrees are standardized by ABET so you'll be taking the same courses no matter where you go. In broad tiers, then, schools are interchangeable by what you'll learn. The differences between the schools are the quality of your peers (and in the higher tiers they'll teach you a bit more in the classes because the kids can handle the extra workload) and the nature of the schools. Some schools have larger classes and are more impersonal (eg. no assigned faculty advisor, sink-or-swim mentality, etc). Be sure to factor this in when you choose your college; pick one that you are comfortable with. Given your scores it's worth considering a school that may be a bit lower ranked but is willing to give you merit money, if finances are an issue AND you'd be happy at that school.
[quote]
Also, supposing I had exceptional "other criteria" (essays, letters of rec), would I have a shot at those schools despite my weak ECs?
[/quote]
This is my opinion here, but my answer would be "no". HS kids underestimate the qualifications of the people trying to get into these schools. They have a nationwide draw. For example, you have some experience in martial arts. I'd bet they're getting apps from kids who have placed in state-wide and national tournaments, from kids on the US Olympic team. That's the caliber of kid these elite schools can choose from, so they don't have to settle for someone with a weakness in an area because they have 5 other apps from kids just as intelligent but without the weakness. It's okay to dream about attending one of these schools, but don't do it to the exclusion of a comprehensive search for schools that are a fit and are likely to accept you.</p>
<p>GPA: 3.81
GPA w/o freshman grades: ~3.90
GPA w/o +/-: ~3.90
GPA w/o either: 4.0 (U of M does without freshman grades or +/-, so I have a 4.0 for them)</p>
<p>The main reason that my rank is so low is because my school doesn't weight any classes. My school warns students to not take more than 3 AP classes in a semester; I am probably the first student in years to take so hard of a schedule my senior year (my high school is not very competitive at all).</p>
<p>Anyways, something else I was interested in was how competitive Columbia's SEAS is for admission? I have scores, etc. pretty high for Columbia's standards, but do they put a large enough emphasis on ECs that I would have little chance for admission?</p>
<p>As far as finding a school that has a slightly worse program but is willing to offer me merit money, etc., I really don't think I will find a school I like better than U of M. I love Ann Arbor (I only live 20 minutes away, so I visit pretty often) and U of M has some great facilities and resources. I have a near perfect academic record for them (4.0 GPA) so I think that I will not have much problem getting accepted. If you happen to have any other schools in mind that would be good matches, feel free to offer suggestions. I was considering Purdue, after the STEP program, I thought that Purdue seemed like a great school, but I don't know why I would choose Purdue over U of M; U of M is slightly better in almost every aspect, and considering I am from Michigan, the tuition difference will be enough to seal the deal.</p>
<p>Finances aren't a primary concern; I won't have any problems paying tuition, but my parents would definitely not want me to waste their money, and I wouldn't want to waste it either. It just seems like any school worse than Michigan just wouldn't be worth the money.</p>
<p>Because you are in state it will be easier and you certainly have the grades/sat scores. Ann Arbor is an amazing school esp. for engineering. You also have instate tuition on top of that.<br>
Also, you said that you were planning on applying to Ann Arbor soon. Just do that for right now. Do they have the form of rolling decision where you get informed of their decision within 2-4 weeks? If so just go with your plan. If you are accepted, just go there. You seem to love it and if you want, you can always go to one of those 3 schools you mentioned for your masters (if you're planning on obtaining one.)
In the end go where you feel the most comfortable.</p>
<p>With those stellar credentials, I think you should get into one of those top 3 engineering schools. Your EC's don't particularly stand out, but don't let that bother you; just make one or two of them stand out in your essays. Scores and grades are still by far the most important factors in admssions. If you can explain you passion and dedicatoin to a couple EC's through your essays, and you get good recommendations, you defintely have a solid shot at MIT, CIT, or stanford. People keep saying there are so many people with your stats, but the truth is, those three schools actually do need a large portion of their school to be filled by these type of people in order to maintain their reputation/prestige as the top 3 engineering schools. Columbia is not even ranked in the top 25 engineering schools, so I don't quite know why you would really apply there, except maybe as a safety school along with Michigan. Don't let people discourage you....you are nearly the perfect applicant. Definitely go for the Big 3. You have as good a shot as possible.</p>