<p>if communism (as a theory) puts all man on an equal footing, then if communism is slavery, who's the master?</p>
<p>You see it's okay to appear ignorant as far as communism is concerned, but my concepts of captilalism are bashed with "well, this kid obbbbbviously knows nothing"........well, i've got a news flash for you guys, it might rain tomorrow, dress accordingly...</p>
<p>Oh, and as far as master.......I'm pretty sure I'm your daddy, gambadent..........just pretty sure</p>
<p>I feel so bad arguing with you, "Myself". Maybe it's a subconcious thing because of your username, and maybe it's because I can recognize that this isn't going to go anywhere, since you obviously aren't familiar with substantial texts on communism and the language of political economy. </p>
<p>I don't mean to sound patronizing, but my comments shouldn't be confusing if you're familiar with communism, since they are basically straight out of Marx. Is Marx confusing? YES. That's why you should read him in an academic setting. If you come to the U of C next year, or whatever, you'll most definitely have an opportunity to. You'll read Smith, too, don't worry, and depending on which courses you take, you can read any number of great political, social, and economic thinkers. I'd love to have a discourse with you in a topic you're familiar with, if you like. PM me or something, I don't care. But talking about communism with you is tiring. Incidentally, do I think that communism and Marx are perfect? Of course not; if it was perfect you'd think people would have adapted it. But it's (a)not the monster you make it out to be (b)way more complex in method and thought than people give it credit for and (c)an incredible criticism of capitalism</p>
<p>Incidentally, how many people arguing in this thread are objectivists? Libertarians?</p>
<p>gambadent: Forcing one man to work for another is slavery.</p>
<p>...isn't the master the state? Who is run supposedly run by the people, so everyone is their own master (as well as slave) and other peoples master, which also means others are your master. But then you are also their slave, while being their master....I've lost thought.</p>
<p>The point is that communism, as far as my very very very limited knowledge is concerned, isn't about slavery/mastery...it's about equality, is it not?</p>
<p>Yeah 2:40</p>
<p>stupid 20 minute edit rule.</p>
<p>I'm not sure on what my views are and I have a lot more studying to do before I can call myself a(n) X. The way I look at it, we are NOT created equal. Some are physically stronger, while others are more intelligent or are more creative. I don't think it would be fair to put everyone in the same boat and say that they are all equal. Yes nurture has a big part in the development of these traits, but I don't think it is all up to nature. Although I don't necessarily see myself competitive, I can't imagine a world that isn't dominated by the will to do better than others, but that is probably due to my upbringing and greed . I think up to this point I am a capitalist. Although there wasnt really a successful communist regime, I dont think capitalism is that successful in regards to its implementation, but this has a lot to do with society/culture and the economy is built around those things, not the other way around (not historically at least). What I am referring to is basically opportunity. Isn't capitalism also about equal opportunity? Maybe not. But I think it should be, and perhaps a society that promotes equal opportunity is what I'm aiming for. I think there should be competition and we all should have to work our asses off to get ahead of the rest (if that is our goal), but we should all start at the same line. The gender, educational, racial, cultural, etc. gap is way too big and self interest, promoted by capitalism, increases these gaps all the time. </p>
<p>But one can argue that it is impossible to set up a common starting line. Where would you start? Everyone has a different background, wealth, skills, qualifications, age, etc. so how can you weigh them, or their future children, equally? I think the government should have a big role in this, at least setting up equal opportunities. I dont know. There are a lot of factors involved that I can't see being controlled, at least in a fair/balanced (not a fox reference) way. </p>
<p>I consider myself a good person and I have potential, but I don't think its fair that I am more likely to succeed in this world (at least financially) because of my fathers job and his ability to 'buy' me a good education that will hopefully lead to a good college which would get me a good job, while a black female working in a crappy restaurant getting min. wage that has only 1 parent and has to take care or 2 little sisters, who is a lot smarter than I am and is genuinely a good person (not saying that I'm not) will probably be a victim of capitalism without equal opportunity. Is it better for me? Yeah, and I'm very grateful for what I have. But she would deserve a better future than me (with the very limited knowledge we have). I'm against this kind of situation. Sorry for my very bad interpretation of stuff and inability to express my views in a coherent way.</p>
<p>From Esquared:</p>
<p>"You see it's okay to appear ignorant as far as communism is concerned, but my concepts of captilalism are bashed with 'well, this kid obbbbbviously knows nothing.'"</p>
<p>If you consider pointing out the inadequacies/inaccuracies with your argument "bashing," then I truly wish you luck at the U of C.</p>
<p>Grow thicker skin. And learn why incentives matter.</p>
<p>I believe esquared's point was that instead of criticizing his point, people are criticizing him. It's not your place to call him stupid or ignorant because of his opinions. You can disagree with him, but I fail to see on what authority you can call them entirely invalid. You are a 17/18 year old kid who's completing highschool. You are not an expert on every topic, although judging by the ever apparent size of your egos, I'm not certain you know this. We all have imperfect arguments, be mindful of this when judging others. By all means, point out flaws, but do so respectfully.</p>
<p>THANK YOU.</p>
<p>Dude, you're not listening....there is absolutely nothing wrong with correcting people or offering different perspectives...you did neither of those things. You took action to correct me as an ignorant person, when in point of fact we have differing perspectives. I think you should point out my flaws, lord knows I have them - you can start with my sense of fashion - but, insults (unless they are facetious and contribute hootiness to the conversation....and I don't believe yours are since they appear to the teeth-grinding kind) really add nothing in the exchange of info. </p>
<p>Grow thicker skin? Ask anyone about my reputation on this forum.....most will tell you, with distaste for 75% of CCers dislike me (much like yourself), that I'm the sarcastic immature kid who pushes the limit.</p>
<p>Esquared def. has that rep around here, I'll confirm that. Although often times he is hysterical</p>
<p>Esquared is right - he is many things, but thin skinned is not one.</p>
<p>"I believe esquared's point was that instead of criticizing his point, people are criticizing him. It's not your place to call him stupid or ignorant because of his opinions. You can disagree with him, but I fail to see on what authority you can call them entirely invalid. You are a 17/18 year old kid who's completing highschool. You are not an expert on every topic, although judging by the ever apparent size of your egos, I'm not certain you know this. We all have imperfect arguments, be mindful of this when judging others. By all means, point out flaws, but do so respectfully.</p>
<p>THANK YOU."</p>
<p>I didn't call him stupid, I called him misinformed. There's a difference.</p>
<p>And speaking of misinformed, you're not doing so favorably yourself. I'm 24.</p>
<p>great- I'm sure your age makes a huge difference. I don't think that message was actually aimed at you....but, hey, if you think it applies to you, then who am I to disagree?</p>
<p>Debaser -</p>
<p>Since you're 24 why did you decide to join this forum?</p>
<p>"great- I'm sure your age makes a huge difference. I don't think that message was actually aimed at you....but, hey, if you think it applies to you, then who am I to disagree?"</p>
<p>Considering you quoted no one, mentioned no one's name, said only "you," and it was directly following my post, my assumption was valid.</p>
<p>great, I never said it wasn't a valid assumption- I just said you were wrong.</p>
<p>"Debaser -</p>
<p>Since you're 24 why did you decide to join this forum?"</p>
<p>I'm still a prospective student.</p>
<p>Are you a mature student?</p>
<p>Prospective student at the University of Meanie Pants....</p>
<p>PWNED.
( Sorry Esquared, I had to help you out there :-) )</p>