<p>This kid totally got what he deserved. Why he was yelling about the patriot act I dunno, since this incident had NOTHING to do with that. The kid was causing a huge disruption and they asked him to leave for about l10 mins. Instead of leaving, he still said stuff. Then he wouldnt even stand up after he was tased. This isnt about race, so dont throw that card in my face you liberals. Ya know what, this isnt even about being a liberal or conservative anymore. SHEESH ALL YOU COLLEGE STUDENTS KNOW HOW TO DO IS TAKE PARTY LINES (ESPECIALLY WITH DEMOCRATS). Why dont you use the brains that got you into college for a change and realize that not everything is republican and democrat and that this incident has nothing to do with anything except a disorderly colelge student who wanted to cause a scene (and possibly make headline news, which, sadly, he accomplished). I say fock off to kids like these. Its about time cops bring a little common sense to these liberal wackos.</p>
<p>I saw the video the other day, and while I was shocked and disturbed by the use of violence employed by UCLA campus police -- I do think that it was pretty excessive (hand cuffs, anyone?) -- I do not have much sympathy for the student. Had he simply complied with the officers and left the building, nothing would have happened.</p>
<p>Just to clarify:</p>
<p>He was not yelling about the Patriot Act. The cops were yelling "Here's your *****ing Patriot Act"</p>
<p>I understand that the issue is complicated and it is easy to call this a repeat of Rodney King. I just wanted to get the facts straight.</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure it was the student who yelled about the Patriot Act. It was either him or another student watching from the sidelines.</p>
<p>A taser is not used to force compliance, it is used for defense.</p>
<p>Most medical reports and even the company that makes most tasers used suggest tasing no more than 3 times, and if so, to call for an EMT.</p>
<p>in addition, there is no need to taser some who is handcuffed.</p>
<p>They had to get the kid to shut up. Of course he deserved to be tased. Some kids in that library were typing papers. They were probably as hell when that guy started causing a disturbance.</p>
<p>You've gotta be kidding. If you're loud in the library, you get tazed? What's wrong with you? If the guy was being a disturbance, then just arrest him like cops are supposed to do. There were like 5 freakin cops and they had this kid handcuffed. I'm sure that, between the 5 of them, the cops could've dragged him away without tazering him 6 times. Good grief.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Then he wouldnt even stand up after he was tased.
[/quote]
Do you know what a tazer is? It's meant to put the muscles in shock, so the victim is in a whole lot of pain and can't move for at least 30 seconds. You can't criticize him for not getting up immediately when he's PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO DO SO. And the cops keep tazing him and telling him to get up. Good idea guys.</p>
<p><a href="and%20possibly%20make%20headline%20news,%20which,%20sadly,%20he%20accomplished">quote</a>
[/quote]
He wouldn't have "accomplished" anything if the cops hadn't tazed him. He wasn't being a physical danger to anyone. It's also pretty illogical for you to ASSUME you knew exactly what his motives were. Do you have any evidence for anything you said besides the tape and a news article? If not, how the hell can you logically assume he was trying to make headline news?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Its about time cops bring a little common sense to these liberal wackos.
[/quote]
What the hell happened to "realize that not everything is republican and democrat and that this incident has nothing to do with anything"? What happened to "SHEESH ALL YOU COLLEGE STUDENTS KNOW HOW TO DO IS TAKE PARTY LINES"?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why dont you use the brains that got you into college for a change
[/quote]
I won't assume that you're in college, but why don't you use whatever brains you have to put together a coherent response to everything that I just said? I'll do the same for you.</p>
<p>The police released a statement saying that the student was tased 5 times. According to the police spokesman, the police came into a UCLA library and demanded that all students show ID; when the student in question said that he didn't have his ID with him, he was ordered to leave but refused. According to the LA Times article, "Witnesses disputed that account, saying that when campus police arrived, Tabatabainejad had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack. When an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, the witnesses said, Tabatabainejad told the officer to let go, yelling 'Get off me' several times."</p>
<p>A few questions for the police:</p>
<p>1) Tasers are designed to cripple an oncoming attacker who poses physical harm to others. How does an unarmed student qualify as a harmful attacker?</p>
<p>2) The police are seen shouting "STAND UP!!" repeatedly to the student, and shocking him when he does not comply. How can they expect him to stand up after they have repeatedly incapacitated him?
According to a document on the web site of Taser International, the manufacturer of most police tasers, the weapon, as designed, "temporarily incapacitates target" and "may cause injury."
More information about tasers' incapacitating effects:
"a shock of half a second duration will cause intense pain and muscle contractions startling most people greatly. Two to three seconds will often cause the subject to become dazed and drop to the ground, and over three seconds will usually completely disorient and drop an attacker for at least several minutes and possibly for up to fifteen minutes." --Wikipedia
"The result is an instant impairment of the attacker’s neuromuscular control and severely impaired to perform coordinated action. The ADVANCED TASER M18 series uses an automatic timing mechanism to apply the electric charge for 5 seconds."
Obviously, their weapon had worked; the order to stand up was an impossible one.</p>
<p>3) Who are the UC police trying to protect or defend? Surely not UC students...even if you discount the one UC student effectively tortured without committing a crime, the reaction of every student in that library is obviously outrage. Furthermore, the police are seen here being hostile to other students, who simply want to know the police officers' badge numbers.</p>
<p>shastarasta, I agreed with all you said in post #1. I really liked your points about some things just really having nothing to do with political parties.</p>
<p>Until you said 'liberal wackos.'</p>
<p>Was that really necessary?</p>
<p>That is EXACTLY the kind of negative mudslinging that the first part of your post SEEMED to be against!</p>
<p>I too agree with shastarasta's main point...don't jump to conclusions. This should not be political.</p>
<p>But was it really necessary to tase the guy repeatedly and yell at him? In a student library? I can see handcuffs and gruff/stern treatment, but torture? Did they have to, or was the fact that he was Arab an easy excuse/cover-up?</p>
<p>I'm not going to apply to UCLA :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Do you know what a tazer is? It's meant to put the muscles in shock, so the victim is in a whole lot of pain and can't move for at least 30 seconds. You can't criticize him for not getting up immediately when he's PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO DO SO. And the cops keep tazing him and telling him to get up. Good idea guys.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not true. The taser (especially in drive stun mode, which is what was used one this kid) only incapacitates the subject for as long as a shock is delivered. Yes it hurts (although not as much as his ridiculous screaming lets on), but as soon as its over, you are able to stand up - I think the fact that he was able to scream at the top of his lungs after being tased is evidence of the fact that he had plenty of energy left.</p>
<p>
[quote]
1) Tasers are designed to cripple an oncoming attacker who poses physical harm to others. How does an unarmed student qualify as a harmful attacker?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, tasers are designed to be a pain compliance technique for subjects who refuse to follow commands of police officers. </p>
<p>The officers had no way to know that this guy was unarmed of even a student (duh - he refused to show student ID). In a case where someone behaves suspiciously (i.e. they refuse to show ID per the rules of the library and then refuse to leave per the repeated requests of the CSO), the police have every right (and I would say the responsibility) to stop that person and question them for their motives in doing what they did.</p>
<p>And when he became limp (like a 5 year old child would to get out of the grip of an adult or something :rolleyes:) and started to scream at the top of his lungs and curse the officers, this raises other red flags. Then a group of students starts to gather and become openly hostile. The police had every reason to tase him as many times as they needed to get him to comply.</p>
<p>
[quote]
He was not yelling about the Patriot Act. The cops were yelling "Here's your *****ing Patriot Act"
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Um, yeah not so much. It was the student who was screaming those things.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think the fact that he was able to scream at the top of his lungs after being tased is evidence of the fact that he had plenty of energy left.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Good to know how willing you are to pass judgment on people effectively being tortured.</p>
<p>"He was screaming at the top of his lungs when they were drilling holes in his hand. He can't have been THAT mentally traumatized".</p>
<p>
[quote]
This kid totally got what he deserved. Why he was yelling about the patriot act I dunno, since this incident had NOTHING to do with that. The kid was causing a huge disruption and they asked him to leave for about l10 mins. Instead of leaving, he still said stuff. Then he wouldnt even stand up after he was tased. This isnt about race, so dont throw that card in my face you liberals. Ya know what, this isnt even about being a liberal or conservative anymore. SHEESH ALL YOU COLLEGE STUDENTS KNOW HOW TO DO IS TAKE PARTY LINES (ESPECIALLY WITH DEMOCRATS). Why dont you use the brains that got you into college for a change and realize that not everything is republican and democrat and that this incident has nothing to do with anything except a disorderly colelge student who wanted to cause a scene (and possibly make headline news, which, sadly, he accomplished). I say fock off to kids like these. Its about time cops bring a little common sense to these liberal wackos.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't know which police state utopia you dream of where public disturbance is a one-way sentence to electric shock therapy.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Good to know how willing you are to pass judgment on people effectively being tortured.</p>
<p>"He was screaming at the top of his lungs when they were drilling holes in his hand. He can't have been THAT mentally traumatized".
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Once again, way to have no idea what you're talking about. Reread my post, especially the part about how the taser only causes pain for as long as it is applied. After that, there is no pain or lasting effects. He had no reason to be screaming so much AFTER the tase, and that is what indicates to me that he was not severely incapacitated by the shock.</p>
<p>It speaks to the immaturity of some in the crowd that they're more offended by the attitude of the victim than the blatant abuse by the authorities (6 tasers for a minor offense, as well as threatening a bystander with unwarranted use of force). It shows that some of them have a tendency to think first of self-interest (as in "that guy -- me off") or crude biases (as in "those hippie scum") than objective analysis of a situation.</p>
<p>Mouthing off to a police officer does not warrant the use of a taser. The taser is only meant to be used in self-defense, in a potentially harmful situation. If a police officer is too little of a man to calmly deal with verbal abuse, then he's just a state-sanctioned bully. And this isn't the NYPD dealing with drug dealers and murderers and living under constant stress; they're freaking campus security! Who do they think they are?</p>
<p>All right lets objectively analyze your statements, nbachris2788. This is not meant as an attack on you, but merely as a correction to your continuing misinterpretation of facts.</p>
<p>
[quote]
they're freaking campus security! Who do they think they are?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, UCPD is a state police force who is trained just like any other officer in California (going through a POST academy) and with full police powers on and off duty. They have authority in the entire state of California and deal with a wide variety of situations, from dealing with snot-nosed students like this guy to major felony arrests. Far from "campus security".</p>
<p>
[quote]
Mouthing off to a police officer does not warrant the use of a taser. The taser is only meant to be used in self-defense, in a potentially harmful situation.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Its nice that you can make such absolute statements even though you weren't at this incident, didn't witness the whole thing (the video definitely doesn't), and don't have any sort of police training or knowledge of tasers or use of force and compliance techniques. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.ucpd.ucla.edu%5B/url%5D">www.ucpd.ucla.edu</a> has UCPD's use of force and taser policy on it. The taser is a pain compliance tool, and not "only" to be used in self-defense. </p>
<p>But even if we take your explanation of self-defense only, I believe this situation still warrents its use. This is based on the fact that a large crowd of unruly students had gathered and expressed their discontent with the police officers and that the student was acting very erratically. The situation posed a potentially dangerous one to the officers, and they were justified in using the means in the use of force continuum to rectify that.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Actually, UCPD is a state police force who is trained just like any other officer in California (going through a POST academy) and with full police powers on and off duty. They have authority in the entire state of California and deal with a wide variety of situations, from dealing with snot-nosed students like this guy to major felony arrests. Far from "campus security".
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I was pointing that out in case some authority-enthusiast evoked the "these men are in danger in the line of duty" argument. I know they are part of the police force, but their duties basically make them campus security.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But even if we take your explanation of self-defense only, I believe this situation still warrents its use. This is based on the fact that a large crowd of unruly students had gathered and expressed their discontent with the police officers and that the student was acting very erratically. The situation posed a potentially dangerous one to the officers, and they were justified in using the means in the use of force continuum to rectify that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>A bunch of armed officers against one loudmouth student? What a bunch of cowards.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is based on the fact that a large crowd of unruly students had gathered and expressed their discontent with the police officers and that the student was acting very erratically.
[/quote]
Wait...didn't the situation become a lot more tense AFTER the police tazed him? How would tazing him make the crowd calmer? I get the idea that whoever was watching before the tazing was just watching a kid yell and be obnoxious to an officer...but the crowd turned angry at the cops after they started to use unnecessary force.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The situation posed a potentially dangerous one to the officers, and they were justified in using the means in the use of force continuum to rectify that.
[/quote]
I disagree. To any observer, the best way for the police to handle this "potentially dangerous" situation was to just drag the kid out of the library and put him in a police car. Tazing him 6 times made the situation more dangerous, not less dangerous.</p>
<p>Just a sidenote...the first time I heard about this situation, it reminded me of the part from Harold and Kumar where they're in a deserted street and a police officer comes out of nowhere to give Kumar a citation for jaywalking. Kumar complains a little, and the officer patronizes both of them, gives them a few more unfair tickets, and gets violent with Kumar. Then Kumar gets mad and says:</p>
<p>
Obviously not all cops are like that, and we can't even know for certain whether this is accurate for the cops in the UCLA situation or not, but I think it's an interesting insight. Police brutality always reminds me of bullies who need a legally sanctioned way of picking on people.</p>
<p>I think JimmyEatWorld711's point is that the kids who loved Rousseau and sympathized with the ACLU generally do not grow up to become police officers.</p>
<p>From my limited experience, guys who want to become cops are usually burly guys with rather simplistic notions of right and wrong (is it any coincidence that Shaq's a cop?).</p>