<p>Please choose Harvard for the right reasons. My belief is that too many people choose Harvard based on name, rather than for the more relevant reasons.</p>
<p>I think this is the reason why there seems to be a greater proportion of unsatisfied students at Harvard. It seems like a significant portion of Harvard admits choose it based on prestige, and when they get there, they realize that it isn't the right school for them. This is good for Harvard because it increases its yield rate, but bad for the students who chose it for that reason.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>almost none ever transfer out, </p></li>
<li><p>more stay to graduate than at any other college or university in the United States of America, and </p></li>
<li><p>alumni contribute at a higher rate than the alumni of almost every other university - the marker used by USNews to measure student satisfaction.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>For America's top students, choosing Harvard - if the choice is open to them - is a very natural, and a very sensible, informed decision. Here you are more likely than elsewhere to be rubbing elbows with your peers.</p>
<p>It is for this reason that so many top students apply, and so many matriculate if admitted.</p>
<p>For those who matriculate at Harvard - who are as intelligent and serious-minded as those who enroll at most other schools - their reasons for doing so are, by definition, "the right reasons".</p>
<p>This is mainly for the ones who would end up complain about lack of undergraduate focus... don't go to Harvard if you expect a LAC-esque environment.</p>
<p>what HH05 is true for any school and cannot really be argued. Unfortunately many students are lured by prestige and their own insecurities when choosing a school. This might be more true of Harvard than other schools because its name is mythical (its why I choose it for medical school even though hopkins, duke, ucsf are in reality better). Whether or not it leads to students being more unhappy I don't know and though I don't think the stats that Byerly posts are indicative of the level of happiness of current harvard students, nor do I feel that the COFHE study can accurately compare schools due to lack of an internal control. What I do believe is that choosing a school that fits a student is alot more complicated than just choosing the highest ranked/most prestigious college a student was accepted to, whether it be harvard, yale, princeton...<br>
Whether or not this is cliche, well, there's always some truth behind such things.</p>
<p>Some cliches. like those we usually get about Harvard from Mr. Bulldog of Yale, are simply that - hackneyed phrases spouted by those inclined to push other places - and specifically Yale. It is standard propaganda that has been peddled for generations. Take it from whence it comes.</p>
<p>Actually Byerly, this thread was started by HH05, not me. In fact, my tone was much more conciliatory and not directed at harvard alone. But you, as always, cannot hear evil when it comes to harvard. It must be propaganda, pushing people to yale. You are paranoid and pushing people to yale quite enough on your own. "From whence" is comedic by the way. What time period to you live in?</p>
<p>I never pretended that my views are not biased. Where did you come up with that? Did you imagine that? Another paranoia? </p>
<p>Everyone's views are biased - as a harvard troll, you should know yours are as well. I still don't understand your aversion to the possibility that students go to harvard because its prestige (or yale or princeton). Really, why are you so allergic to the idea?</p>
<p>Interestingly, many many more people transfer out of Harvard than Yale. Last year almost four times as many students opted to transfer out of Harvard College than out of that little college in New Haven. Just a thought.</p>
<p>Last year almost four times as many students opted to transfer out of Harvard College than out of that little college in New Haven.</p>
<br>
<p>Where did you get that statistic? Do you have a cite to support it? The number of students who transfer out of Harvard each year is usually in the single digits.</p>
<p>The only out-transfer of which I am aware last year was a lacrosse player who wasn't playing much who transferred to a Division 3 school in order to become a starter.</p>
<p>There may possibly have been a few others, but I can't think of them.</p>
<p>If you're including me among the "friends," my statement about the usual number of transfers out of Harvard is based on being a leader in the Transfer Links program there from 1997-2002. Because the number of spaces for incoming transfers has to do with the number of students transferring out as well as several other factors, those of us who were advocates of a larger transfer-in program took a close interest in this kind of statistic. (The prospect of creating more room for transfers is an ancillary reason why I support the growth of study-abroad at Harvard.) Unfortunately for our transfer-in program, the number of transfers out could generally be counted on one hand and never flirted with double digits.</p>
<p>This isn't a stat that's published anywhere, I don't think, so I can't give you a link.</p>
<p>She is looking to transfer to Harvard or one of a list of other schools for next fall. I doubt if she has much detailed information about transfer-out data at Harvard or anywhere else.</p>
<p>Whoo...defensive much, Byerly? And this "he" is actually a "she", thank you very much. But I suppose I asked for it, saying something remotely negative about Byerly's holy of holies. :) But know I meant no offense; I'm totally for Harvard; It's my first choice, I applied there as a transfer, and am going through the interviewing process now. But Byerly, unless you actually work in the Harvard transfer admissions office, where I don't think you do and where, incidentally, is where I recieved the info I posted above, I don't think you're at liberty to go running your mouth off at me and claim I made up what I posted. I have been told by several people in Harvard transfer admissions (officers and even the people who answer the phones) that a transfer class is picked to fill in holes in the current class. These holes are created by people who completely leave and withdraw from Harvard--in other words, transfers and people who drop out. These cases, I was told, compose 99% of a class' holes; there are of course rarer existing circumstances, such as serious illness and jailtime/whatnot that make up the other 1%. Last year 55 transfers were accepted to Harvard College, compared to 20 or so transfers accepted at Yale. I just take what I'm told and look at the numbers; I suppose I could infer that, if Byerly said is true, that yes, very few people at Harvard transfer out, just a bunch more people at Harvard than Yale drop out. :) </p>
<p>But in all seriousness, the number of transfers that both Harvard and Yale take are so small, it's fairly stupid to argue about it. And I'm only speaking from what I've been told at the Harvard transfer office, so I know very well I may be speaking on wrong information. If anyone finds info that says otherwise feel free to contradict me. But that people transfer out of a university doesn't reflect badly on a university at all. It's a personal choice and, I think, reflects more on the person. There is no such thing as a perfect university, and until a university happens to attain such a lofty setting, there will be people who find they just don't <em>fit</em> there and transfer out. And Byerly, I'm sorry, but even Harvard's not perfect yet. :)</p>
<p>Your error is in inferring that there is a direct relationship between the number of transfers-in allowed (55 last year at Harvard, 30 at Yale) and transfers out. Nor are there very many openings created by drop-outs - either at Harvard or Yale. </p>
<p>As it happens, this is not true, at either Harvard (or at Yale, as far as I know) and Hanna - herself a former transfer-in - has told you as much.</p>
<p>A smaller fraction of each class drops out at Harvard than at any other college in America - and the picture is not much different at Yale. In the case of Harvard, this means only about 25 people drop out of a class of 1,635 or 1,640 over a 6 year period.</p>
<p>In fact, the number of spaces available for transfers is essentially a function of the beds available. Beds become available, primarily, when students decide to take a semester abroad.</p>
<p>President Summers has made it one of his key priorities to expand the study-abroad program. One of the by-products of this expansion, as Hanna has noted approvingly, is that it will make room for more transfers-in. Harvard has long favored additions to the class via transfer as a matter of educational policy. As Dean Fitzsimmons often notes wryly - it "allows Harvard to make up for its past mistakes" - by which he means taking another look at people who applied previously but were not admitted, but who have since proven themselves potential superstars at another address.</p>
<p>In conclusion, I think both Hanna and myself are a bit more informed about these numbers than you are; your claim about the number of transfers out was in error, and totally unsupported by the facts. That is why we feel free to contradict you.</p>