<p>"To get to a point -finally- the basic misconception arises from considering the SAT Math a pure math test with questions that need to be solved as students do in high school. The math test is a test of logic and reasoning that happens to require very basic math skills. Just think that it is faster to solve the problems without a calculator than with one! "</p>
<p>This could not possibly be MORE TRUE! People - IT'S A LOGIC TEST. The questions DO NOT NEED CALCULATORS and a HUGE proportion of the time they do not even need to be solved! My D blew through all the "10 Real SAT" practice tests just as soon as she figured that out! Just to take an obvious and simplistic example, if 2Xsquared minus 5 over 2 equals 17, 2Xsquared + 5 equals what? Solving it takes time; doing it logically takes maybe 2 seconds MAX. Of course that was a silly example, but the basic fact remains the same.</p>
<p>"I think it is about time that we allow our children to reclaim their childhoods, to grow up with a bit more innocence. It starts with gymboree, progresses to little league, then to traveling soccer and dance classes, on to resume padding Physics club, FBLA competitions, CTY summer programs, PSAT/SAT tutors, AP overload, then ED angst. And to what end??? The derogatory terms "hot house" students and "helicopter" parents have made it into the popular jargon and not without reason."</p>
<p>Originaloog-- I agree with your sentiments about letting kids be kids and not turning them into study machines, etc... but I must take issue with at least one of your specific examples. For our son, CTY was a lifesaver. It was the first time he realized he had intellectual equals (i.e. other high-level nerds). Before CTY he was one lost kid who wondered why he was so out of step with his school mates. He had no idea that an alternate culture (the life of the mind) could exist somewhere. He went to CTY for four summers (three weeks each but would have gone 6 if we could have afforded it). CTY is no hot house academic camp for high achievers looking to build their academic resumes. Please don't lump it in with PSAT tutoring, et al. He didn't look forward to CTY all year long because it was a springboard to college, but because it offered him a respite from the mindless drudgery of certain (most) of his middle school and high school classes. CTY lifted his depression, didn't add to it. </p>
<p>I would imagine the same is true for some kids who love their physics club or traveling soccer team. The key is moderation, balance and doing it for the right reasons -- because it's fun! A certain amount of preparation for high-stakes tests is okay in my book, too. </p>
<p>I do think, however, that you are right about our overscheduled kids. It's a bad trend and burn-out/depression are sad consequences. When I read the words from deferred kids saying "the last four years has been for nothing" I understand there is something really wrong with how they have viewed/experienced their time in high school.</p>
<p>I think you're on the same page with Originaloog, because he added that the activity is fine if the motivation comes, as in your son's case, from the student, not the parent. (an obvious example here would be Soozie's daughters.)</p>
<p>As far as prep goes, if I had insisted my kids do SAT prep, I would have turned my D into a stressed out basketcase (what, you don't think I'm good enough?) and S into a resentful passive agressive (fine, I'll say I'm doing it, but it ain't happening.)</p>
<p>Not conducive to good relationships or growth, in either case.</p>
<p>ReasonableDad (gosh darn it, you're always so reasonable!), you get to the point at the high end of the test range where scores are just as much due to random factors like amount of sleep, mood, and which trick problem they got or didn't get. Someone can get a 1600 on one sitting and a 1540 on the next...if they were to do them in that order.</p>
<p>Regarding test prep. Shrug. It's not for everyone, clearly. It was more or less "if you want a good shot at these schools on your list, then you need to get scores in range X." The decision was hers. Like the 9-10 ballet classes a week, there's no way the motivation could come from anywhere but from within. I will say that she's thoughtful in that, if we agree to commit $$$ to something, she won't waste them. Otherwise she'd tell us to save it.</p>
<p>Momof2-Garland has expressed my thoughts exactly. There is(was) nothing at all wrong with your son going to CTY because he wanted to go. And even if you had to give him a very lgentle shove out the door that first year, that would be okay in my book too.</p>
<p>I know a young adult in my church who may have been a clone of your son. He was extremely intellegent and just did not fit in with the other sr hi's. While he didn't "do" CTY or other such things, I was so happy when he told me that he was going to JHU. He's really happy, doing fantastic academically(4.0 frosh year-though he got a B in a summer physics course he took that summer at the local state university), and was asked to go back to JHU for a few days this summer between soph and jr year to begin planning for post grad awards, I assume things like Rhodes, Watson, Udall, NSF, and Templeton scholars.</p>
<p>Some of it is learning to take tests, some is just learning stuff, and some is just luck. Daughter (HS class of '03) went up about 5% (10+ points) overall in the PSAT from 10th grade to 11th. However, she dropped in the Math score from 74 (soph) to 71 (junior), despite (obviously) having had more advanced math training in the interim. But she then aced both the math SAT I and the math SAT IIC. So I don't know if you can read all these tea leaves that clearly.</p>
<p>Perhaps I should clarify my point (although I'm glad it generated discussion). The summer programs with PSAT gateways are programs my <em>daughter</em> wants to attend. NMSF is a distinction <em>she</em> wants to achieve. Ignoring the fact that practice will improve her likelihood of achieving those goals strikes me as naive - like jumping the high jump in track without ever practicing.</p>
<p>And sadly, a lot of kids will miss opportunities because it will only become apparent in Jan of their junior year that the PSAT's were more than a practice run for something else.</p>
<p>Agreed, KateLewis. D says that many of her highly ranked peers in HS are kicking themselves now for not prepping even a little for PSAT. It's a one shot deal, and unless the NM implications are explained to the students in advance, how would they know? Once they are empowered with the info, it should be their choice whether to prep or not.</p>
<p>One more tidbit of information on the value of PSATs. They are used by some colleges along with other criteria to award scholarships to juniors. Not shabby ones either (4K and 6K per year).</p>
<p>LOL: my son took the SATs (his only time) the Saturday BEFORE he took the PSAT. It was great prep--his total score on the PSAT went up 20-some points! </p>
<p>I agree that so much money is at stake--lots of scholarships for NMFs--with the PSATs that it would be foolish not to prep IF the sophomore year score indicates a semi-finalist score is a possibility.</p>
<p>Carolyn:
My PSATs last year were similar to your daughters PSATs, (even though she took the new PSAT) and I think that she will do better on the SATs..I got a 54 in verbal, 52 in math, and 61 in Writing. On my SATs, my math rose from a 530(52) to a 710 my third time taking the SATs. My verbal rose from 550(54) to a 660, so I believe that by studying, your daughter can do a lot better. I recommend getting her a math workbook by Barrons (although they give more math formulas and stuff than the real test, it will help her a lot) and a verbal workbook by PR. By finishing half a workbook, my score rose from my 2nd SAT(640) test to my 3rd(710) by 70 points! Imagine how much better I could have done if I had finished the entire book. I would also recommend her practicing reading comprehension by getting an ARCO book, which has A LOT of practice problems in it. Reading comprehension was my biggest killer for me, because I usually missed around 12 on the SAT test, but after practicing for like 20 hours on just reading comp. questions, I missed less. (6)</p>
<p>Although she will be taking the New SAT, there are many similarities between the old and new test. All I am saying is that by getting the right materials and studying, your daughter can do very well on the real SAT.</p>
<p>dmd77--my daughter did the same thing. I think it was a help for the PSAT. She did retake the SAT at the June sitting, but that was it for the SAT.</p>
<p>Carolyn, I have been reading your posts for over a year now. Your daughter has very good scores. And they will go up even more. She is definitely getting into schools in the lower half of the top 100 lacs. Goucher, a school you have mentioned, for sure. I bet Lewis and Clark too. Many, many others. Good luck to her.</p>
<p>On prepping--S passed the bar for NMSF for all but five states; those, unfortunately, included the one he lived in. Should I have driven him nuts to have to do higher than most other NMSF-ers, or let him accept his Commended status with pride? His sister did make it, and it really didn't help her in any way.</p>
<p>Neelash, Thank you for taking the time to write with advice. I appreciate it and have passed it on to my daughter.</p>
<p>Dstark - I think she will do OK. We're lucky in that the schools she really prefers are schools like Goucher, Earlham, etc. Lewis & Clark has an SAT optional admissions option as well. She has looked at some more competitive schools (kenyon, Dickinson) and actually didn't seem interested.</p>
<p>She said today lots of kids were "sharing" their scores at school and she was surprised at how low some of the scores of "smart kids" were. One boy she knows got a 330 on the math! What bothered my daughter was this particular boy didn't seem particularly worried about this score.</p>
<p>Definitely accept Commended with pride. It's not his fault he lives in a tough state. It seems to me that if it's a "national" contest, the criteria should be the same nationwide. Last year's range from 202 to 222 was huge - unfair, IMO.</p>
<p>Carolyn: I believe that there is the potential for a great deal of improvement from one year to the next. Maturity and test-taking skills alone come into play. Your D's CR and Writing scores are great. She is fortunate that she only has to focus on math if she truly feels the need to try to improve substantially. I also believe that a good tutor will not only help with conceptualizing math, but also with effective strategies.</p>
<p>Hi everyone,
This is my first post on CC.
My son just got his PSAT scores back today and is majorly bummed. He was certain he had done well and the scores were quite mediocre (65-51-57). He is beating himself up for missing questions on stuff he took as a Freshman-easy things he can do in his head. </p>
<p>He is taking it really hard because this is a kid who is taking AP Calculus II, tutoring other kids in it and other subjects and an A student. He will probably be taking a couple courses at the local liberal arts college next year since he has run out of advanced courses to take at our rural school.</p>
<p>He feels like he has let everyone down, missed an opportunity for a grant and wrecked his chances at MIT (where he thinks he would like to go at this point for engineering). EVERYONE is going to hound him for his grades tomorrow and he almost can't face them. We're mostly talking about his disappointment with math since that is his "thing".</p>
<p>As far as the read/write scores--he needs to do better but he hates to read! Spends his time on computer games instead. Plus, he is a slow reader--it takes him a long time to cover a page. I don't know how to help him with that.</p>
<p>I never took the PSAT when I had a chance in the 70's, just the SATs. Could I have a reality check for the both of us please? How important is the PSAT really when it comes to seeking entry to college? If he does well on his SATs can he undo this damage? His psyche has taken quite a hit tonight and I'm not sure what to do for him...</p>
<p>3<em>to</em>go-- Colleges don't request or receive psat scores. And, when anyone asks him for his scores, tell him to smile and say something like, "You really don't want to know." As for reading help...I just read in the paper that some of the local schools are introducing comic books into the schools. I guess they're something that kids like to read, and that they can read quickly, and then they get a self-esteem boost from reading something quickly that, one hopes, will eventually translate into reading something more challenging.</p>