Psych graduate school confusion

<p>So, </p>

<p>Long story short, after many years of confusion and switched majors, I finally decided to finish out my college career with a major in psych, with the goal of becoming a school counselor. Now, since I have jumped into this field, I am positive that I love psychology, but have suddenly become not so sure on the graduate school front. I am a first semester senior planning to apply for graduate school for next fall, and so far I have been pretty solid on becoming a school counselor. However, taking counseling psychology has made me less sure, and in addition, I was discussing my options with a professor and he said I should really seriously consider switching my plans to a PhD program. In school counseling, since it is pre-professional, the schools that I have contacted offer little prospects for graduate aid, and in the best case scenario, I would still have to take out loans for living expenses. On the other hand (and I'm not assuming this is so), I may be competitive for aid at a doctoral level in a research psychology field, since I have a very high GPA, research, TA experience and looking like good GRE scores, plus at least one excellent rec letter and other letters should be solid enough. </p>

<p>Now I just have myself all kinds of confused. Even if I do suddenly decide to pursue a PhD, is it too late for me to be making these decisions? Additionally, I'm not sure what field of psychology I would even study, aside from that I'm pretty certain I don't want to do clinical or counseling. My undergraduate research has been in behavioral psych but I'm pretty sure that's not what I want to do either. </p>

<p>Any words of wisdom or advice would be much appreciated.</p>

<p>It is not at all too late, but it is definitely time to get rolling. Even the earliest application deadlines I saw last year were in mid to late November, and most programs gave at least until December.</p>

<p>Some program deadlines even go to January 1st or 15h. It’s not too late as long as you’ve done prep for the GREs and are ready to get writing your statement. Do you really want to do the research, though? There are PsyD degrees in place of the PhD that are more hands-on for getting a counseling job (though less aid, also somewhat less competitive). </p>

<p>You definitely want to sit down with a trusted advisor/prof and let them know exactly where your interests and goals are, and see what advice they have to offer you. You shouldn’t go for the PhD just because you’d fair well in admissions - go for what you want to do for the next few years, and many years beyond that as a career.</p>

<p>Thanks for the advice, guys. :)</p>

<p>I’m well aware that I definitely need to get rolling so far as the application process goes. I’m kind of in a tough spot because I’m realizing as an RA that I am not particularly great at talking with people that I am not familiar with, and I’m afraid that I would not be as effective as a counselor as I would want to be. </p>

<p>As far as looking into research goes, it just really seems to be what I’m good at. I have always seemed to shy away from research fields, but the more I learn about it, the more interested I become in the studies that I read and learn about (though usually we are taught more about the interesting ones than ones that are more specific). Weirdly enough, and it may just be because of the professor, but I am thoroughly enjoying research methods this semester.</p>

<p>It seems a big thing with me is that I need to be challenged, but in something that I am interested in. I am very interested in psychology, and my favorite classes have been my most difficult ones. </p>

<p>As for where I am at, I had been going through the research process with counseling grad schools, but they are totally different from the schools that I would look into for doctoral programs. GRE is done and over with. I prepped pretty significantly and my estimated scores were very high. Even if they dip a little bit when the real scores are calculated, I don’t realistically think that I could improve upon them. </p>

<p>Should I be looking into taking the GRE psychology subject test? A friend gave me review materials and such for it but I hadn’t been planning on taking it before because none of the programs I was applying to even mentioned it.</p>

<p>Another quick question! (Please excuse the double post.)</p>

<p>I thought I had the answer to this but now I am confused by conflicting information on the internet. Does a candidate with a strong undergraduate profile apply directly to a PhD program or do a Master’s first in psychology?</p>

<p>If you want a PhD, apply directly to a PhD program. Most programs will offer you a master’s degree if you complete all the requirements except for the dissertation.</p>

<p>Next, although you have the profile for a PhD program, you must solidify your interests before you write your SOP and apply. Based on what other people have written on this forum, I believe that psychology PhD programs require a professor to “sponsor” you – that is, say that he/she will fund you if admitted – and this requires locking into a subfield and even a research project from the start. You might want to check with your advisor to see whether this information is correct. Even if it’s not and even if you can sample professors’ research areas after you arrive, PhD programs expect applicants to have narrowed down their research interests before they apply.</p>

<p>It’s not too late to <em>apply</em> to PhD programs, but I do believe it’s a little too late to figure out what subfield you want to enter and then apply. </p>

<p>A few notes:</p>

<p>1) In my experience, many professors will encourage their more promising students to get a PhD in their field, even if it’s not 100% in the best interests of the students they are advising. There’s a strong desire on the part of professors to generate the next generation of scholars and to see their best students go on to how they measure success, which is academia. I wasn’t in the room when your professor advised you to consider a PhD program, but it’s possible that he advised you of that given your stellar stats. However, great stats/potential doesn’t necessarily translate into a NEED for a PhD.</p>

<p>Basically speaking, if you want to be a professor of psychology, you should get a PhD. If you want to be a research scholar in psychology - either at an academic institution or some other type of place, such as a military/government research lab or a think tank, then you should get a PhD. If you don’t want to do either of those things, the value of a PhD is far smaller for you. Possibly you should consider a PhD if you want to be a counselor, but there are many ways to be a counselor/talk therapist. Depending on the way you want to do that, getting an M.Ed in school counseling, an Ed.S in school psychology, or an MSW/LCSW may be the way to go as opposed to a school/clinical/counseling PhD.</p>

<p>2) Don’t get a PhD because you don’t want to pay for a master’s. The trade-off for funding in a PhD program is WORK. This may seem self-explanatory, but the reason they are paying you a stipend is because they expect you to work for it, and work for it you will. If you want a job that only requires a master’s, just get a master’s. School counselors don’t have to go to Harvard to get a job, so you could likely go to the flagship public of whatever state you are from and get a relatively inexpensive M.Ed, and still get hired. (Becoming a school guidance counselor was also my plan before I decided to get a PhD in psychology.)</p>

<p>However, taking counseling psychology has made me less sure, and in addition, I was discussing my options with a professor and he said I should really seriously consider switching my plans to a PhD program. In school counseling, since it is pre-professional, the schools that I have contacted offer little prospects for graduate aid, and in the best case scenario, I would still have to take out loans for living expenses. On the other hand (and I’m not assuming this is so), I may be competitive for aid at a doctoral level in a research psychology field, since I have a very high GPA, research, TA experience and looking like good GRE scores, plus at least one excellent rec letter and other letters should be solid enough. </p>

<p>So the question is, what do you want to do?</p>

<p>1) If you don’t know the answer to that question even vaguely, postpone your applications. Figure out if you actually want to be a professor and/or a research scholar in psychology.</p>

<p>2) If you don’t know what subfield you want to apply in, postpone your applications. Not only do you need to figure that out but you need time to develop a compelling personal statement to explain why you want to study in that subfield. It is difficult enough to transfer PhD programs within subfields; trying to transfer between subfields (like from developmental to cognitive or cognitive to social) is nigh impossible unless they’re closely related or the research you do has applications in both. You will be seen as wishy-washy. This is not a process you can rush through in a couple of weeks so you can begin to prepare applications for December/January; psychology apps are relatively early because most subfields interview. There is NO SHAME in taking a year or two off, and many successful PhD applicants do so.</p>

<p>Some PhD programs (like mine) do require a professor to fund you, and others don’t. However, in all psych programs, you will need to be a research match with at least one professor in the department. This will take some time rifling through papers that interest you, finding out who wrote them, and then tracking them down. Conferences are also a great way to chat with professors who could potentially be mentors/PIs at schools.</p>

<p>A suggestion is to apply for research coordinator/lab manager positions in large research labs at universities. Students who take those positions are very successful in getting admitted to PhD programs in psych after 2-3 years of working. Many of them get to present at conferences and even coauthor papers with members of the lab. Our lab manager of 2 years just began her first year here as a PhD student, and our manager before her spent 3 years here and then went off to UNC-Chapel Hill’s clinical program.</p>

<p>Now that was some more great advice! </p>

<p>I spent quite a bit of time talking to one professor in particular, and he introduced me to a research field that I feel may be promising. At this point, I am feeling that I am more inclined to pursue a job in academia or in research, which has always been more what I am suited towards and interested in, but I have not pursued basically as a function of not feeling that I am <em>good</em> enough to do so. I have developed a whole new sense of efficacy in my studies here in my department, and I think that the statement that my professor made really just helped to solidify the possibility in my head. </p>

<p>I am going to start to do some research into this particular sub-field in the next week or so, and my SOP should be decent based on that because the professor I spoke to may take me on as a research assistant this and next semester in the field. Not to mention, I have a very personally important reason why pursuing this is important to me, because the issue I would be investigating scientifically impacts people who are very near and dear to me. The only thing I am worried about is that I am clinging to the first idea that is presented to me, but it just all seemed to click into place. I have had this feeling and been wrong before, though.</p>

<p>I don’t recommend what I did, but I didn’t even know that I wanted to pursue a doctorate in a business field until September; before that, I was more interested in getting my PhD in Economics/Microecon and Game Theory or in Social/Decision Sciences. I told my professors I’d work for a few years before applying since the thought of researching programs and faculty in business schools was foreign to me. It wasn’t until November when I decided I’d rather not be idle and to apply that upcoming season. I registered for the GMAT November 12 and took it November 16, giving me roughly three days to study for the GMAT. I missed some deadlines since I felt that my personal statement wasn’t of quality to submit, but eventually I still got through 11 applications and got into 7 of the programs. I did all that (including flyouts) while working a fairly constraining job as a consultant/research analyst, so if you have nothing to do between now and deadlines, you should be able to research the field(s) you’re interested in, contact professors to write letters (September seems so early compared to mid-November, asking for them to submit mid-December), and applying.</p>

<p>If you will be gaining another year of research assistant experience, perhaps it would be better for you to wait a year to apply to grad school? This way you are not rushing to figure out a sub-field, making a mistake, and being unhappy with a program you enter. It will also make you more competitive to have more research experience, and another great letter of recommendation. I decided to wait a year before applying to social psych PhD programs, and now I’m looking more into marketing PhD programs - research on consumer behavior is social psychology within the realm of marketing, and I am finding that sub-field to be more interesting. I am glad I didn’t rush through the process and possibly make a mistake. </p>

<p>Many programs do not require the GRE - psychology test. A lot of times they may look for it if you were not a psychology student but trying to get into a psych grad program. Be careful though, I have seen a select few schools that /do/ say they require it.</p>

<p>Some excellent advice and anecdotes above. Another way to explore what you want to do is to pursue a masters (funded) and get the research experience whilst learning the ropes a bit. Your masters research does not have to be exactly what you pursue in PhD, just in the same general area.</p>

<p>Research-oriented Masters are hard to find, but some DO offer full funding. I’m aware of one or two in my home state that offer programs with a heavy emphasis on research as opposed to being “applied,” much like a shortened doc. program, and the tuition remission/stipend set-up is nearly identical to most doctorate courses I’ve considered. You might need to travel/move farther away than you’d like, but it is another option as somemom had said. Plus the deadlines are usually in spring rather than winter, which will allow you to mention any additional research experience and interests you have experienced.</p>

<p>Hmmm… All very interesting points to consider. One thing I am concerned about is the efficiency issue. While I’m aware that I can pursue a Master’s first, my professor advised against that if I didn’t want to take forever in graduate school because his experience with that was that typically the Master’s did not improve standing much and students from other schools who attended his university for their PhDs were not as advanced in the program as they should be. </p>

<p>I suppose this shouldn’t be my primary concern but I really am not feeling the idea of putting my life on hold another year. My prospects for this period, especially in my area, would probably be living with my parents and working at Walmart again, which is definitely not what I’d really want to be doing at this point, especially since my parents have addiction issues that make it very difficult for me to live with them outside of the summers. </p>

<p>I’ll have to do some thinking about it. Talking to several professors in the department and asking them how they started in their fields, it really struck me how accidental the whole process was. Most of the time it was a professional relationship or even a casual conversation that pointed them in a particular direction. At this point, I’m starting to realize how many different potential paths I could pursue, and it seems nigh impossible to pursue each idea at length without utterly paralyzing myself. Even such, I could just as easily see myself as a biologist as someone studying psychology. Just so happens that I love psychology but my life could be so different right now and I don’t think I’d be any worse off. I guess I’m just one of those people with a wide array of skills and interests, so I feel like there are a lot of different things that could make me happy as long as I feel I am reaching my potential and making a difference. </p>

<p>I think at this juncture I will just have to see what I feel is right. Sometimes it has lead me astray, but other times I have landed on the right path. I’ll keep researching into this exciting field and see how it feels to me, and also have some more conversations with this professor. </p>

<p>Thanks everyone!</p>