This is an argument for choosing a larger school for a safety, since a smaller school may have insufficient demand for courses at the outlier ends of student academic strength.
However, it is not necessarily true that a more selective college will offer higher rigor courses in every subject compared to a less selective college.
@fiftyfifty1 Strength of alumni network could be another metric.
Well, its ranking has improved fwiw
Just one thought here - A tendency I have noticed. Once established as a top school, the so called high ranked schools never seem to drop down, even if there are a ton of issues with it. People tend to suck it up for the āprestigeā.
Almost invariably, people are what makes something good. At a university, it starts with faculty. It needs to attract the most talented faculty before it can attract the most talented students. Talented people in any field also like to go to places where there is a critical mass of other talented people in their field or adjacent fields. Itās, therefore, very difficult and resource intensive for a university undistinguished in a particular field to bring in the most talented people in that field. The opposite is also true. Once a university has established its reputation in a particular field, it will continue to attract talents even if it faces resource issues (UC Berkeley is a good example of that).
I have heard that on the margin, if there are other choices available, PhD students are avoiding UC Berkeley because their annual stipend is very low compared to peer universities.
I agree that large schools tend to offer more with courses and likelihood to find peers, esp if one hangs out in the labs or similar if interested in academics vs other things. (Same with small schools on the latter actually.)
And yes, as I said, each school needs to be looked at with the student in mind. I donāt like using any Top X list because those are often generic. To use an example from my own kids, Eckerd rarely makes any Top 25 list (except as a party or weed school), but itās definitely among the top of the top for Marine Science and does well with other sciences.
To do a good college search, itās not just names and numbers, though numbers count for most when trying to afford college. Look at whatās going on within the desired field(s) at each college knowing what the student prioritizes.
Some fantastic points made here.
Iāll add that if money is a big constraint (as it frequently is) the student needs to be flexible on his/her academic goals. You DONāT need to major in Cog Sci-- even a āmediocreā flagship will have adequate psych, bio, chem and CS/Math classes to ādoā Cog Sci. You DONāT need a specific biomed engineering major- again, a flagship with a robust engineering school will have enough of the right classes to put together the major. Ditto for journalism, āpre-lawā (not even a thing IMHO even though parents and kids LOVE that major), etc.
Itās worth time with the course catalogue of the āif money were no objectā schools, and then the catalogues of the affordable options to see if the kid can create the right program with or without the fancy nomenclature and ābrandingā.
I just heard of a kid in my neighborhood who doesnāt want to go to the (out of state) flagship to which heās been admitted, with merit, because it doesnāt have a āBehavioral Economicsā major. It is one of the top Econ programs in the country; you could not run out of psych courses in 6 or 7 years even if you ONLY took psych; explaining to the parents that behavioral economics is the marriage of econ and psych (with some sociology and statistics mixed in) is like talking to the wall. It will be a more rigorous, cheaper, better reputation option than the private colleges heās waiting to hear from- aaargh. But itās not my money.
This particular flagship is NOT mediocre- but the research required is the same. Donāt let your kid dismiss a college without doing their homework on it. U Maine has the top Paper Technology program in the country even though it usually doesnāt rank up with UVA, Michigan, etc. Delaware has what is usually considered the top Museum Studies grad program in the country- only a Minor available for undergrads as far as I recall. But an Art History major/Museum Minor at Delaware (again, not usually ranked up with the top flagships) is a fantastic option for the kid who canāt get into Williams (one of the top Art History programs in the country) and who canāt afford one of the āusual suspectsā tippy top flagships.
HOMEWORK.
Former UC Berkeley PhD student hereā¦The problem isnāt so much that the stipends are low, itās that the cost of living (especially rent) in the area is ridiculously high. We got in just before everything skyrocketed, so my stipend was sufficient to live on without taking out any loans. I canāt imagine how anyone entering now would manage it, however. It is really unaffordable here. Even UC Village - the university owned student family housing populated primarily by Cal grad schools - is simply unaffordable for many. Unfortunately, grad students face the same terrible housing market as everyone else - but with a much more limited earning capacity.
I think Grad stipend at UCB is something like the high 20s or 30. Other privates are at 45-50. ETH Zurich is at 60k or something.
I believe stipends vary depending on the department at most schools. That number you quoted could be for grad students in some department(s) (in the humanities?), but not university-wide.
I heard CS stipends are at or around 30k at UCB. Likewise with Math. In fact there is no distinction between UCB and some other place like UC Davis or lower ranked UC. I seriously doubt there is variation by department.
I donāt believe thatās the case. You can get the current (self-reported) offers from a website like forum.thegradcafe.com
There are other factors as well. For example, I got an additional $12K or so (per year) in the form of a student parent grant (for having a child while a grad student), as well as free/subsidized university-run daycare and preschool on/near campus from the time my daughter was an infant until she started elementary school. Those were a very nice bonus and can make a big difference if you have kids.
I can think of one example where a once-very-highly-thought-of school has dropped way down in reputation and quality of students: SUNY Albany. In the 1970s and 1980s it, along with SUNY Binghamton, was the top state school in NY. Albany and Binghamton were co-equal āflagships.ā
I donāt know what happened, but Albany fell way down. Itās not where top NYS students who are headed to SUNY go. Itās #182 on USNWRās list of national universities (#91 in public universities) ā tied with Montclair State Univ., Stockton Univ. (NJ), and Oklahoma State U. In comparison: Penn State and SUNY Stony Brook are tied at #77 in natāl universities; Binghamton is #83. University of Delaware #89. U of Mississippi #151.
It took many years for that to happen. And yes, very rare occurrence.
One caveat is if a specific major leads to a specific state or National professional certification or licensing. It may be worth going to a lower ranked university that offers all the courses in that major that will prepare and qualify the student for that certification. I am thinking majors like geology because thatās what my kid is doing, but I am sure there are others like architecture or a teaching credential etc?
Probably you mean examples like these (there are exams and other requirements beyond the degree or program):
There are other situations where a major is commonly accredited by an external accreditor:
However, how much meaning external accreditation has depends on the major. For example, it is commonly regarded that any ABET-accredited engineering program is good (though some may be better or better fit for a specific student), but AACSB-accredited business programs have a much wider range of reputation.
Yes. When I was looking into this, I learned that some universities may offer majors in Earth Sciences, but not all will offer one that satisfies the minimum academic requirement for registration as a geologist in the State of California. My kidās program description specifically states: The requirements for a B.S. in Geology satisfy the coursework required for the Professional Geologist licensing process in the State of California.
And some universities offer the option of getting the teaching credential concurrent to your undergrad degree. This is what SDSU offers: The Integrated Teacher Education Programs (ITEP) pathway typically takes 4 years and combines a bachelorās and credential program so that you can complete your general education, major and credential coursework, and student teaching within the 4 years it takes to earn a bachelorās degree.
Better brush up on that German for TA-ing. Switzerland is also a very expensive country to live in. I think they have a law in place that you have to pay grad students a certain percentage of what they would get as rookies in industry. I want to say 75% but Iām not sure. So it depends on what your undergrad is in. Engineers tends to get pretty decent salaries as grad students. Knowing German (or French for EPFL) is helpful for the teaching that one is expected to do.
I would not choose a grad school based on the stipend. You choose a grad school based on the professor who will be your advisor/mentor, the grants they have in place, the size of their lab/group and the facilities if you are an experimentalist. You need to live of course, but graduate studies are a continuation of studying.
And I personally have not found the private universities give much more money to grad students than publics. Maybe things have changed.