<p>My daughter currently goes to a public high school where, despite the school's good reputation, she is not getting a particularly good education. Her grades are very average and she has yet to find a class that interests her. Frankly, considering that most of her teachers are on auto pilot I don't blame her. She is a nationally competitive athelete and an actress which does keep her very busy. I am curious to know what difference you perceive in home schooling versus public school? We do not have a religious/social reasons for thinking about pulling our daughter out of her school. I am worried about her academic boredom.</p>
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<p>Our daughter has done both and is currently at the local high school. She's been waiting for academic classes to go beyond "teaching to the test", but so far, no luck; however, she has chosen to stay in high school rather than homeschool because of fine arts and friends. The decision of schooling has been her choice all along, and even though she wishes some classes were radically different, she enjoys the others enough that she says it's worth sticking it out. She IS hoping for a different experience in college, though, and I don't know how successful she'll be in finding it. Has your daughter expressed an interest in homeschooling? or unschooling?</p>
<p>I would ask the same question. If a student is interested in homeschooling, I think it can be great. If not, I don't think it will work, particularly if you are talking about someone who has attended public school all along and is currently happy in high school.</p>
<p>There is no one size fits all, best education for anyone, I don't think. For instance, both my kids were pulled out of public school at about the same time. But one went to a private school and the other was homeschooled.</p>
<p>The major differences I can see between public school and homeschool include the following (leaving out religious or social issues, which weren't a factor for us either):</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Homeschooling is customizable to the particular student. You can be anywhere on the continuum of strict schedules and precise curricula and testing to unschooling. You can pick what subjects you want to study and what resources will be used. You can remediate or accelerate when warranted, which is very difficult to get in public schools.</p></li>
<li><p>You do need to search around in order to recreate some public school classroom experiences. For instance, you might not be able or willing to buy all the equipment and supplies that a well-equipped high school science lab would have. You compensate for this in any number of ways -- buying lab kits, finding outside classes, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>Homeschooling is more efficient time-wise. There is a lot of time used up in public school by transportation, moving between classes, packing and unpacking, announcements, assemblies, passing out and picking up papers, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>Extracurriculars are possible for homeschoolers, but they might not be the same ones available in public schools. Social things like dances, bowling leagues, film clubs and the like are arranged by homeschoolers (and they are still allowed to have nonhomeschooled friends, too!) </p></li>
</ol>
<p>It can seem overwhelming to contemplate doing it, but I started with about two weeks notice to the school system. There are numerous homeschooling boards on the net and people are very willing to give advice about particular subjects and the like.</p>
<p>I think homeschooling was definitely best for my daughter, who is currently in college. There is no way she would be in the college she is in now were it not for the homeschooling. My only regret is not starting earlier. But -- she was miserable in public school and wanted to come home. There wasn't any strong countervailing consideration.</p>
<p>I would just like to add a bit to what DianeR posted.</p>
<p>Since homeschoolers have flexibility, one can take courses kids in public or private schools can't. In my case, it is Attic Greek. I am auditing Intermediate Greek this year at the UChicago after having taken Beginning Attic Greek over the summer. Since the course is scheduled when kids at "regular" schools are in school, only a homeschooler is able to take advantage of this opportunity. </p>
<p>Homeschooling has been ideal for my siblings and me. Although my parents pulled me out of private school without my liking it, I now find that I am very glad that they did so.</p>
<p>I agree with Katharos. My daughter was able to take three correspondence courses in Egyptology and one in ancient warfare. We were also able to do more unusual types of courses ourselves -- a five year sequence in both history and literature (e.g., 9th grade had Greek and Roman history and G & R literature), a year of logic, etc.</p>
<p>To All:</p>
<p>Thank you for your responses. My daughter is very happy socially at her high school. Academically...no. And please note I am not interested in the super Harvard/Yale candidate with 16 APs and a perfect SAT score. What I am truly unhappy about is that during her entire school career she has managed to have been given the most mediocre teachers (the ones who got fired immediately after having my daughter), teachers who were in their last year of teaching and ready to leave, or the teachers who can't teach (and I have to supplement with tutors, as do most parents). I have 3 older children who went through the same school system, but with different teachers and they all have different personalities but...To have never had a subject that interested her? She isn't stupid, but she has never been reached by a teacher. An example is history: She has been taught some facts by the teacher, of course, but she had no idea how these facts related to the present or to her or even why these facts might be importent. I reviewed her tests and notes, and I can understand her lack of interest and knowledge. I am trying to work out with her school a program which would let her take for credit a few course from an accredited online school where she can begin to understand that their is a reason to learn "stuff". I think that if we pulled her out of her school she would be very unhappy but socially she would retain her school friends, as well as her acting friends and sports friends. We have also entertained the notion of putting her in a private school (which would be extremely academically demanding), but at this late time, it might not be the best thing for her.</p>
<p>Why do you think your daughter would be very unhappy if she left school? Has she said this or is this how you think she would react?</p>
<p>How is she dealing with her academic situation right now? Is she OK with it or are there certain things that bother her, like poor textbooks, busywork assignments, inability to pursue particular subjects, etc.?</p>
<p>I realize all I'm giving you are questions and not answers. Perhaps you and your daughter need to talk about what she wants academically. You or she could also post here about any specific questions she has about the subject.</p>
<p>My daughter really liked the freedom homeschooling gave her. She was able to look at textbooks and decide which one she liked, picked her own paper topics, and so on. She also was able to sleep two hours later in the morning, get her work done during the day, and then had nights and weekends free to pick up a sport. When nonhomeschooled friends would ask her if she missed school, she would mention all this. They usually ended up saying they wished they were homeschooled ...</p>
<p>But then, some kids need an outsider telling them what to do and when. That was my son's situation and one reason why he ended up at a boarding school. Now he says he wishes he had been homeschooled but I don't think that it would have worked at the time.</p>
<p>At my daughter's school the kids are able to take classes that are not offered at the high school (Russian, world religions, etc.) for dual enrollment at the local college. Usually the classes are limited to juniors or seniors (but not just AP and Honors kids), and the kids are released from campus early to attend. It's a popular option, and opens up a broader range of possibilities academically.</p>
<p>How is my daughter dealing with school? It's boring. She has never said that she had an interesting day. My best example is a conversation that we had two days ago. We are talking about going to Europe in June. My daughter said that she would like to go to London. Why? It sounds cool. Ok...why? We could see the Tower of London I said. Suddenly I asked her if she had ever heard of the Tower of London, Henry the Eighth...Anne Boleyn...Protestanism...Bloody Mary? In short...no. Last year they "studied" England. They touched on economics and minorities (we are very PC) in London...forget the Magna Carta, 100 years war...She got an A in the class and knew absolutely nothing. I did give her a history of England 101 and she actually listened and asked questions. My daughter's math tutor has corrected 2 different math teachers' corrections. He was able to prove to them, and the department head that the teacher was wrong. My daughter just spends time sitting in class and being taught by the tutor. On the other hand, she is happy socially. She likes the acting class (even though her private coach is much better) and her sports team. She doesn't want to be home schooled. She views it as a threat, or something to be done if she gets a series, but not as a wanted choice. We have known a few kids who were home schooled, mainly actors and a couple of kids who are religious and they are truly wonderful kids. But to take that step is really huge and she is definitely not a fan. (After I started this thread I asked her to read it and give me her input. Again, she agreed with some of the things that were said, but she really doesn't want change.)</p>
<p>I guess I still don't understand why your daughter doesn't want a change, but I don't have to!</p>
<p>Perhaps your family can sit down and come up with a list of pros and cons for the two alternatives. If this doesn't make the choice clear you could use a more quantitative decision-analysis approach. Figure out the factors that are important and weight them. Assign factor scores for each alternative, add them up, and see what comes out.</p>
<p>I can see some pros in your description -- learning more and doing so more enjoyably, more free time, better college prep. I'm not sure what the cons are ...</p>
<p>Change is a difficult thing, particularly if you don't know what to expect if you make the change. We certainly thought about homeschooling for some time before taking the plunge. A little bit of fear and uncertainty seems typical. If your daughter has particular concerns or questions, feel free to share them.</p>
<p>ellebud, my homeschooled daughter is now a college freshman, and a theater major. (She's still shopping for her second major.) Homeschooling made it possible for her to pursue her interest in theater. She was very involved in community theater, and could not possibly have participated at the level she did if she were in school. If theater is a serious interest for your daughter, maybe she could connect more with some of the homeschooled actors you know and find out how it works for them. </p>
<p>Although I respect your desire to pull your daughter from her boring school situation, it probably won't work at this point unless she is motivated to homeschool. On the other hand, if you both found out more about what's going on in the homeschooling community in your area, there's a good chance she would get excited about it.</p>
<p>Planning a trip to Europe was a central part of our homeschooling experience for years. Maybe you could use that as an experiment. Start planning your trip now, and see what you can learn together in the time you have before the trip. See how you work together, and what it means to you. Then take the trip as if you might use it to launch your homeschooling. Keep journals, and collect information and impressions you would like to pursue. You still wouldn't have to decide until afterwards. If you come back excited about continuing together, just do it. </p>
<p>My thoughts for your daughter are: It's important to take charge of your life. The things that seem frightening about homeschooling are the same things that will be frightening about college and/or life in general in a very short time. Your mother is offering you a chance to work on these things while you're still safe and comfortable at home. Is it really okay to be bored day after day at school? Why are you willing to live like that, and how is it shaping you? If you are satisfied to sit back and shut down now, how will things be better or different when it's time to leave home?</p>
<p>I'm not saying you have to leave school to deal with these questions. Maybe there is something you could do to improve your school experience. Have you tried changing classes when you get a bad teacher? Does it matter to you? It doesn't sound like you are a passive person if you're an actress and a nationally competitive athlete, so why settle for a ho-hum academic experience?</p>
<p>Hi All,
I'm new to the board, but want to chime in here. My oldest daughter will be 15 next month. She was in public school for kindergarten and 1st grade, when we pulled her out and put her in private school. She spent the next 8 years mostly there, but a few times we pulled out to home school using the same curriculum. As of now, she's spent Nov 04 to now in 8th then 9th grade at public school and is hating every minute of it. She is a bright, outgoing, bubbly young lady. My pet story about her is she's the "superball you throw in the room and it goes forever", she can outlast that energizer bunny. Her grades have been 3.0, and she likes the extra socializing, but she can't stand the teachers that yell at the students, the students that threaten to beat her up, and the rest of the staff who won't do anything about it. Right now her grades are down in 4 classes for various reasons, and dad told her that if she brings it up to a 3.0 by the end of the year, she can home school. You should have seen her tear into her work to get moving on it. She's motivated to get out of this environment and back to a normal life.</p>
<p>My youngest daughter, however, is the opposite. She was very reserved in meeting new people and was very afraid of public school. Now, she'd rather stay because of her friends and the opportunties that she sees. These two have always been night and day in personality, so this doesn't really surprise me.</p>
<p>There can be positives to public school and home school. I'm hoping that we get the best for both of them by doing this. The only concern we have about the home schooling is this: in what way will this effect her ability to get into a college? From what I've seen on this board, not much.</p>
<p>Thanks for "listening", this has been an ongoing situation since moving to public school, and hopefully it will be solved by June.</p>
<p>
Homeschooling can affect college admissions positively, especially if you are aware of college requirements from the start. </p>
<p>Many homeschoolers first attend community colleges, which often admit students based only their SAT scores. Students can then apply to other schools based on their community college performance. Some homeschoolers take college courses throughout their high school years, and apply to other colleges as transfer students. </p>
<p>Others apply directly to four year colleges and universities. It's a good idea to get informed as soon as possible, if you think your child might want to do so. Start visiting campuses in your area and find out what they require of homeschoolers. </p>
<p>Start comparing schools online. Browse their CC forums, use the tools at collegeboard.com and princetonreview.com, and check out college websites. Some schools even have information for homeschoolers on their sites, but don't be intimidated if they don't.</p>
<p>If your child already has a specific college interest, whether a certain field of study or a certain school, encourage her to get started doing the research as soon as possible. Different schools have different requirements. You'll need to start thinking about things like SAT tests, and probably AP tests as well. Find out what foreign language requirements she'll need to fulfill, and get an early start on that.</p>
<p>Consider various distance learning options. Colleges often like to see graded work from sources outside the home. It's often wise to incorporate at least a few courses through respected institutions, especially if community college courses are not available.</p>
<p>Homeschoolers tend to get very involved in various activities when they pursue their interests, and this can help with college applications. On the other hand, a homeschooler who watches TV all day would probably have a hard time getting into a selective college. Extra curriculars are an extremely important aspect of a successful college application. </p>
<p>Get involved in your local homeschooling community, and look for educational opportunities through other community groups. Dive into the available homeschooling literature for more suggestions.</p>
<p>Finally, do your daughter and yourself a favor and document everything. She won't have access to high school guidance counselors or registrars, so you will need to get informed in order to help with things like transcripts. It will be much easier if you keep track of things from the start. It doesn't matter how you organize it, just get in the habit of writing down every book she reads, every course completed, every volunteer activity, every community organization she participates in - all of it. It will save a lot of work down the road.</p>
<p>It seems like your daughter does'nt want to homeschool because of her acting class, sports team(s), and friends she's acquired through public school. All of these are extracurricular things which can be accomodated through many options:</p>
<p>1) Depending on where you live, some schools may have an Independent Study Program that your child can enroll in. These programs are typically done through the school. Usually, you do all your core classes (History, Langauge Arts, Math, Science, Foriegn Language) at home, and meet with a teacher(s) or maybe even admin. once or a few times a week to do check-ups and/or record keeping. Again, there are variations to this depending on where you live. Some schools let you do some classes at home while take other classes at the school site with regular students (things like foreign lang. and science are what most people choose to do at school sites). And they usually let the child participate (or in your case continue) with extracurricular activities such as drama and sports. This way she can have both worlds. One downside about doing ISP is that the school is hovering over you in what you do at home (what textbooks you use, what you can study at home, etc.) and there's the inevitable bureaucracy, but this varies among schools. Some schools are very accomodating. Check your school if they have anything like this.</p>
<p>2) In CA there are charter schools that are either site based or primarily done at home. Site based schools are like public schools in that the students go on site to do school. Home-based charter schools are more similar to ISP in that the schooling is done at home. Usually you are assigned an Educational Specialist (some go by other names) which is basically like a teacher/supervisor who works with you in what you want to do and how you want to do it. The ES also works with you in record keeping and with using the money allotted to you each semester. When my sister went through a charter school she was allotted somewhere from $600-$700 per semester and they don't roll over! Most of these schools have a list of Approved Vendors that are approved websites, people, local stores, classes, etc. that you are allowed buy books or services from. These lists are pretty extensives, so familiarize yourself with the list and know where and what you want to buy. The Pros of doing it this way is that you get much more control on what you use and how you use it compared to ISP, and you have an official transcript and help from the ES, and of course the FREE money. The Cons are you don't get complete freedom in how you school your daughter. But with sufficient research in how you want to school your child and what books and services that would best accomodate your philosophy of learning, and organization you can have relative freedom and the advantages of enrolling in a school like this might just be the perfect fit you. Concerning your d's much liked acting class and sports team, you can ask the school if she can participate in those activities even if she's not attending their school (some school's do it) or you can find acting classes outside of public school. And as for sports, there just might be some schools (public, site-based charter, and private) that will allow her to join theirs. This practice is common in the homeschooling/charter schooling community in CA. There's a lot more to charter schools than what I have written. Research what you have available to you in your state, county, and city.</p>
<p>3) You can homeschool your child yourself without ISPs or charter schools. In this you have COMPLETE freedom in what you do concerning your d's education. This is a somewhat bigger step than both of the options above. You have to keep records, teach her, and buy all the materials and services she needs. Some people use online classes, community college, part-time private school classes, even a good study guide and supplementaries to go along with your main text can alleviate the teaching work load. I recommend researching what kind of homeschooling educational style you would like to do. Some do classical education, Charlotte Mason, unschooling, eclectic. etc. You might find that you would like to use some elements from a number of those styles. I found classical education to be the perfect fit with me. The Well-Trained Mind has been by homeschooling bible. I did do considerable tweaking to the outlined syllabi suggested in the book but I believe I retained the integrity of it. Eventually, you're going to have to tweak almost any curriculum you read. The Pros of doing it this way is MAXIMUM flexibility in almost every aspect and you will be well educated on education in general. The Cons are budget (if that's applicable to you), doubts that are very much present in the beginning and always pop up in times of stress, and you having to initiate everything yourself (if your a go-getter then this shouldn't be a problem for you). For acting and sports what I mention in #2 would also be applicable. </p>
<p>I hope this helps a little. It might have been too long! I know that whatever you decide it's going to be the best for your daughter. You are the mother after all! If you any questions please feel free to ask. </p>
<p>Sincerely,
ellemeno88</p>
<p>hi ellemeno88 and nan,
thanks so much, this gives me more places to start. i am friends with a lady who has homeschooled her oldest who is now in college, and is still working with her two younger ones, so i do have a contact here. my daughter is working to get her grades up, but my little super ball is dragging just to get out of bed. i am worried about depression, but i also know she wouldn't take anything if a dr. prescribed it. she knows we'll keep our promise and let her home school, so i'll just have to keep reminding her of that, and hopefully that will keep her spirits up.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Her grades have been 3.0, and she likes the extra socializing, but she can't stand the teachers that yell at the students, the students that threaten to beat her up, and the rest of the staff who won't do anything about it. Right now her grades are down in 4 classes for various reasons, and dad told her that if she brings it up to a 3.0 by the end of the year, she can home school. You should have seen her tear into her work to get moving on it. She's motivated to get out of this environment and back to a normal life.
[/quote]
[quote]
i am worried about depression, but i also know she wouldn't take anything if a dr. prescribed it. she knows we'll keep our promise and let her home school, so i'll just have to keep reminding her of that, and hopefully that will keep her spirits up.
[/quote]
Why are you telling her she can only homeschool if she gets a certain GPA? I don't know her (and if I'm being way offbase and/or presumptuous here, just disregard what I'm saying), but I would think she would be happier and more motivated knowing that she just has to get through the next 2-3 months and that's it. I don't understand the reasoning for making homeschooling a reward only given under certain circumstances, if it is the best thing for her regardless of how she finishes out the year. What if the fit is so bad between her and the learning environment that she can't get the target GPA? Would you really keep her in a situation where she is miserable and having problems academically?</p>
<p>If depression is a concern, if I were you I would seriously consider pulling her out now. You could finish out the year homeschooling, giving her credit for what she has done so far this semester and doing whatever else you think is necessary to give her a semester's credit. When she applies to colleges, it will just look like she left public school after one semester. I don't think this would look any worse than leaving after one full year. Not that it looks particularly bad -- my son left public school high school to go to a private school after one semester and it didn't hurt his ability to get into college.</p>
<p>I pulled my daughter out of public school in the middle of the school year. She was so unhappy and the academic fit was so bad I could only see a downside to having her finish out the year. The way I saw it was that she was not failing, the system was failing her. She immediately was much happier. We did some work identifying and remediating what areas she needed help in academically and she starting doing better there as well. I think having her finish out the year would have been a mistake; the situation was deteriorating -- holding off homeschooling would have been of no benefit academically and her state of mind would have been even worse.</p>
<p>Of course you and your husband know your daughter better than a stranger. I just felt I had to say something about our own experience.</p>
<p>DianeR,
I do appreciate your input, that's why I joined this board, to get some opinions.</p>
<p>Sammie started public school Nov '04 and she has been doing well academically until now. Our school system does 6 weeks progress reports throughout the year, then a final grade at the semester and end of year. The classes she's failing are PE and weights, because she injured her shoulder in weights and was in class but not participating for 1 week. She chose to put off making up her lost time until her girlfriend came back from some out of school activity, so this is something she needs to make up. The other two classes are English and Science. English because she didn't find out what work was that needed to be done, and is now in the process of catching up. Science, she has a project due next week that all the students were informed of at the beginning of the year, and she has made little or no effort to get it started.</p>
<p>We want her to leave on a good note, not failing grades, so that's the reasoning behind getting the grades up. She can, and she will because that's who she is. She understands our reasons behind making her wait, and she's okay with it. Last night was really tough for her, my sister came to town to attend a funeral, so Sammie chose to stay up very late and get her work done then so she could visit Auntie and the cousins, and then attend youth group.</p>
<p>I hope I explained it better this time . . . .and I do appreciate the comments and suggestions.</p>
<p>OK, I'm glad to have that clarified. If I hadn't said something, I would have been debating with myself over whether I should.</p>
<p>Whenever you need advice about homeschooling, there are lots of folks out there that will be glad to help out. They may not always agree, but you will learn about whatever subject it is :)</p>
<p>DianeR
No problem. I suppose it would help me, too, if I take more time to explain. She's hoping to get out of weights and into a computer class, be she may be past the cut off time to do that. She also joined the afterschool Drama club. I think, too, my husband is hoping that once she shows herself that she can do it, maybe she won't leave the school. But he's made the promise that she can, so at the end of the year it will be her decision.</p>