<p>Just got home from wrangling with S's new HS. Lost records, lines around the corner, the usual first-day chaos. Got to the front of the line to discover the truly successful, competent GC from D's last three years at the same school is gone. After 20+ years of providing expert college admission advice, she has cut out on her own as a private consultant. She'll no doubt make more money and probably see better job satisfaction -- who can blame her? That leaves our HS with GCs who've primarily dealt with discipline problems and academic failure; I guess they have nowhere else to go. Doesn't bode well for this year's seniors, especially the first-generation immigrant kids. I fear we won't be seeing as many success stories next spring.</p>
<p>Ouch - sounds like a tough situation to deal with. Could you give a quick profile of the school (# of students, what kind of community does it serve, how many kids go on to 4-year schools, are APs offered, etc.).</p>
<p>Ours is a competitive hs in a fairly affluent area (in a pretty economically distressed region, though). We're fortunate to have a lot of stability among the staff. When GCs leave, they usually write recs for the following year's crop of seniors before they do, even if they're still writing after their leave date.</p>
<p>Would you consider using this former GC as a consultant?</p>
<p>celloguy:</p>
<p>Sounds like the GCs at the HS my Ds went to. There was only one GC that was okay - the rest generally had no clue. I had to inform one of them about the UC A-F course requirments and provide her a link to a UC website that explained them further. Most of the GCs can't guide or counsel. The idea that they'd be able to provide any real assistance is a joke. This was at a HS with a large hispanic population that the GCs geared themselves for - dealing with just trying to keep them in school. They ended up ignoring the top end students and really didn't know what to do with them. Luckily, I fought to have the GC switched to the one good one who was helpful with recommendations, etc. Also, I made sure to educate myself so I didn't have to rely on a GC for G or C.</p>
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Luckily, I fought to have the GC switched to the one good one who was helpful with recommendations, etc.
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<p>Your description sounds very much like ours; 65% hispanic, many with low aspirations, 420:1 students:counselors, GC focus on improving UC and state college acceptances/FA for URMs. Just the one GC with LAC/Ivy expertise, but with 400+ clients, not much time for each. We actually changed D's name (used the "other" half of hyphenated last name) so she'd be assigned to this GC. D did fine with help from friends and relations. Now S is spending this week at the public HS just to get that experience -- next week he leaves for boarding school, where he's assured of personal attention. I wish I could scoop up all his friends and bring them along.</p>
<p>ditto in our public school where the failure is so primary that 50% don't graduate and very few have college educated parents at all. Dismal is all that can be said re college discussions. Our saving grace is that we have great state universities. S met his third GC senior year! Zero continuity and no real college help except in sending off paperwork..which you MUST review yourself for clerical errors.
my advice, and remarkably.. my S suddenly showed great maturity as he approached age 18. Do all the work yourself (with your student taking charge) and suck it up. Dream big but also attach/appreciate your match colleges and visit all of them if possible and gather personal anecdotes and responses to each college culture. Present your GC with your list, your addresses, a statement next to each school that is cogent on why each school would be a successful match for the student. Have your student drop by with short notes when he makes visits, and basically fill our the GC file by sharing your own scut work with him or her. Impress your GC with your own child's initiative. It worked here. Overworked GC commented that my S was the most prepared and responsible student applicant on his impossible caseload. We never saw the reference letter of course but S had great admissions outcomes by sizing up the situation and doing his own search and making his own decisions. Good luck. Enjoy this time with your S or D regardless..it is a special time in life where you can be supportive and involved in a memorable way while watching your child take in that the great privileges of a college education are right around the corner.</p>
<p>Did this GC know your son well? If so, you might see if you can get her to write a paragraph or two for your son's file, which can be part of the GC rec, so that it will better reflect what you would want to see in the GC rec sent on to his colleges.</p>
<p>I like Jmmom's idea. And I bet the new GC might like to have less work to do, if the old GC can come through.</p>
<p>My DD ( a rising senior) has the same problem. Her GC in Freshman year,overlapped with my DD#1. This guy was horrible, did not know what he was doing at all, luckily my older DD did everything-held his hand through the entire application process. The only thing that she couldn't do was to write the recommendation. Unfortunatly (or fortunatly for others) we got a copy of his letter home in some sort of local scholarship package and it was horrendous. Spelling errors, gramatical errors, etc. He wrote no better than a fifth grader, with little information about my daughter other than what she had on her information sheet. In the same package were the teachers recommendations, which almost made me weep with pride for my dd and what she meant to her very bright AP teachers. Needless to say, he did not last long, and my poor DD# 2 is on her third GC, this one having been hired 2 weeks before the start of school with no Guidance experience at all ( I think the last one went screaming into the night!) I am trying not to have a melt down. I did speak with the private college counselor who has been helping my daughter about writing up suggested "letter of recommendation" for the new counselor. She told me that she was agaisnt it, and it probably wouldn't go over well with the new GC. Yuck, not looking forward to the upcoming school year and all of the applications that DD will need help filling out. Thank God for CC!!!
Socalmom</p>
<p>So, we are on our 4th principal in 4 years and recently found out her last GC (#2) left. Large (just under 3000 students) public hs in urban city - not quite sure of percentages but pretty culturally diverse community. Met with the new principal a few weeks ago regarding gaps in schedule, lack of room and very few offerings in Honors/AP classes, etc. He was very nice, but has more pressing things to deal with than just one individual case. School is in danger of being declared underperforming, so that is why he was brought in when Principal #3 left (who was doing an excellent job). So, with some help from a friend who happens to be on the School Committee, he got in touch with the new GC, who much to my surprise - called on the phone one night last week to touch base with D and I. I was pleasantly surprised by this - I teach and know that it is very unusual for counselors to do this, especially in the summer. This was the week to go in to "fix" schedules, so between two visits yesterday and today, and several phone calls - she now has a schedule that we can live with. The GC seems really "on the ball" and she was very impressed that D had prepared and gave her a "brag sheet" so that when the time comes, she can draw upon it to write her letters of recommendations. Still very much an issue that there are not enough honors/AP classes - but that will hopefully be something that they start working on for the future. I jokingly referred to myself as trying not to be a "helicopter" parent, and she assured me that I wasn't being one - much to my huge relief - LOL! Now, just have to convince D of this............ </p>
<p>PS - Anyone have any "hints" on how to get her to start writing those essays?? She just finished a college class today, so I haven't wanted to be too pushy, because there was a lot of work - but she ended up with an "A" for the class which is great. School starts next Thursday - but her boss gave her a 40 hour schedule this week - she works for an office supply chain that is having their huge "back-to-school" sales this week. I had really hoped that she would have the essays ready to give her English teacher right away - she is applying early action.</p>
<p>My S was still rewriting his personal essay which morphed from Awkward Effort to Profoundly Good Effort but in need of Cuts/edits on December 31 even though a great teacher offered to read his essay over the holidays via email to comment and offer edit/cut ideas. oy. Can't help you.</p>
<p>It was sorta like seeing him leave with a suitcase that needed to be edited again..overstuffed but your gonna miss the plane unless you go As Is. </p>
<p>Fortuanately, non perfect essays can read as genuine. That is what I said to myself. maybe your D won't drag it out that much.</p>
<p>socal</p>
<p>I'm told it's ok to send a "parent letter" to GC, not telling him/her what to write, but an FYI thing for them because they don't have time to deeply know each kid they're advising.</p>
<p>I feel very good about our son's public school GC. I think he's very tuned in and cares about his kids, but he has 100+ and can't do in-depth research into schools for every kid. He interviews them and I think shows them rec. before sending it. We feel fortunate, but we'll want to provide any info that might help him to write his rec., while also saying he can ignore what we say and write what he wants. I understand that most GCs like the assistance if it's not pushy.</p>
<p>I loved a parent poster on some thread here, who said it might help an admissions committee if they could describe your kid in a few words, like the dancing Russian Scholar. I'm writing a "parent letter" for my son's GC that personalizes him: voracious reader, wants a school where being interested in "the life of the mind" is valued, worldly focus and tap dancing for 6 years, etc.</p>
<p>It's been interesting to me how many of my son's favored schools have tour guides who happily describe themselves as "dorky". Sounds like a fit to me.</p>
<p>The highschools I know ask for input from the parents. There is no reason why a parent should not write a letter welcoming the new GC and including an information sheet. Most GCs love having a good info sheet to use when writing up the college refs.</p>
<p>Parents, if your student is in a big public high school or even a small one with weak counseling services, you should call the counseling office or ask your student if there is a getting-to-know-you type form to fill out. If the school doesn't have one, create your own and don't feel the least bit sheepish about turning it in.</p>
<p>Our big CA public -- 6 counselors, 3,000 students, 690 seniors -- does hand out a form to students to fill out about their activities, awards, personal backgrounds, etc to help the counselors write recommendations. I only found out about this form by seeing it on my son's desk the day before it was due back in the counseling office. He wasn't going to bother me with it because the parent section was "optional." Grrrrr! Also, he had filled it out and only included two things: jazz band and academic quiz team. He didn't think it important to mention four years of Hapkido (no special awards) or four years of serving as a religious school teacher's aide (it was on separate community service form) or that he and some of his friends had a jazz combo and hired themselves out cheap (no big deal.) I made him include those things so his counselor had a better idea about him since he was not a joiner at all at school.</p>
<p>The parents section gave me the opportunity to tell the counselor about personal qualities: that he was always available to help friends with tough homework and studying for big tests and that he had a wide, wide reading list for a boy his age. I think this info did help her to write a more complete and probably much more enthusiastic recommendation for him than if I had not seen this form and contributed to it. So, parents, ask about this form (especially if you have boys, i think) and if your school doesn't have one, do it anyway and hand it to the counselor who has your child. My two cents.</p>
<p>I think ANY counselor could use such "cheatsheets" (not at all cheats!) Even a very proficient, motivated counselor could leave out something, forget something, not know something when feeling out all of those recs. That is even from a small school. If your student is doing stuff outside of school, it is tough for anyone at the highschool to know about it. And everyone gets writers block. With deadlines and so many recs to write, it is insanity to have anyone who is writing a general rec, NOT to have some sort of detailed list, and it does behoove the parent to take a looky see at the form, the kids filled out. Some kids do not want to mention the horroriffic divorce from last year, that dad lost his job and things have been tight, that mom has mental issues and has to "go away" occaisionally. This a time for the parent to fill in some of these things that complete the picture.</p>
<p>D Sr attends large urban public hs-2300 students. Her GC of 3yrs left, now assigned a new GC. It was 400 students/gc now 700 students/gc.YIKES! From these forums I understand the GC submits recs. along with teachers. D in charge of selecting and securing recs from teachers. Questions: D need to supply a "resume" to GC, along w/letter from me-hopefully submitted on an appt basis rather than drop off? What exactly is the GC/school in charge of completing for my D applications so I can know what I have to stay on top of. I did recently check transcript/D file and all correct. I truly appreciate any ideas or guidance. Thank you-APOL</p>
<p>Take a look at a sample teacher/counselor form from a college or the common file and look at those questions as a start. Usually a GC of a school that size will send out sheet with some guiding questions as well; it's the teachers who tend to fly by the seat of their pants in my experience. Even if your student really likes the recommending teacher, the feeling is mutual, and you know there will be a good rec, there is very likely to be stuff that would be good on that rec that the teacher may not know. Actually, any info that is favorable to the student, or will explain some glitch in the records should come from the GC. It looks too much like an excuse if the parent or kid brings it up unless it is carefully and well done. A slight reference in an essay works well, but you know, some schools do not read that essay very carefully and could miss that.</p>
<p>Thank you cp--I will get a sample form from common app, and "fill" it out.
Question about Teacher recs--do the teachers write rec, and then give it to student, or GC, or should I be making up envelopes w/stamps for teachers to submit directly, or? Do you have suggestions about this as well? Thank you-</p>
<p>You need to ask your counselor how things are specifically done at your school. At the schools I know, the teachers and counselor write a blanket recommendation--they do not bother to fill out the questionairres. So all they have to do is run off another copy of the rec when additional are needed. What we had our boys do was to put the rec sheets from each college (completed in all areas that the student can fill in such as names, addresses school, etc) in separate folders and staple a cover letter thanking the teacher/ counselor for the time they put in onto the folder. Attached to the rec sheets is an addressed, stamped envelope for the recommender to put in his recommendation. I was told that usually the teacher just staples the rec to the questionairre which already has all the student identifier info filled out and sticks the sheets into the envelope to drop off in the mail. We have a small school here with more than enough counselors and teachers, and the staff is eager to help, yet the recs are still pre fab. That's why it helps to give the people a "Cheatsheet" . Not easy covering the grounds of a questionairre free hand.</p>
<p>I just sent in a Brag Sheet to S's GC. They sent home request first day of school, also sheet for him to fill out. This is not the time to hide their lights under bushels IMO. I warned GC to wear shades to prevent accidental blindness.</p>
<p>S1 only applied to large public u's. Thank goodness no formal recs. were required. IOne app. required the GC's signature and brief comment. He wrote "Student X will be a very successful student at X University". This man had been S's GC for all 4 years. S was well known at his sch., in the top 10 in class, commended student, AP scholar w/ distinction, 1400 SAT and all the GC could say was that he would be successful at this state u! </p>
<p>Thank goodness the scholarships he applied for asked for teacher recs. </p>
<p>At our large (2700+) public sch. the GC's mostly exist to handle scheduling problems and parent complaints. Few students go oos to college. The GC's really just know the basics of college admissions. After reading CC as long as I have, I feel like I know more than they do. I feel sorry for students who depend on these people to guide them!</p>