What is a URM?
URM is an Under Represented Minority.
Anotherone96…could you please explain your perspective on this issue? Are you a Purdue or Alabama student? Are you an engineering major?
Neither Purdue nor UA. But a top school none the less and yes, engineering. Having a high set standard is a good thing (really, it is!) It what makes a higher tiered school just that. I’m all for schools improving their reputation but why lower their standards? Is lower GPA acceptance really imoroving a school’s reputation? And I guess as I am female I am an URM and really think the standards should be the same, not lowered. Do employers not look at GPA’s when hiring a new grad? I’ve been told that it is relevant. So my goal is a higher GPA to get into a higher paying job. The GPA is there so far, going the job will be as well 
Being female does NOT make you a URM. URMs are African Americans, Hispanics, American Indians, etc.
And while you may want the “standard to be the same,” the truth is that URMs tend to have lower GPAs in college, for a variety of reasons. Therefore, any school that sets the bar at 3.0 in order to get a co-op is essentially handicapping many URMs in a way that the school should be ashamed of.
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Do employers not look at GPA's when hiring a new grad?
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Yes, they do. But HR offices tell hiring eng’g managers to be much more lenient in regards to GPA for URMs. This doesn’t sacrifice the output quality as long as the applicant has demonstrated in other areas that he/she can do the work. And, obviously, by giving co-ops in these situations, it gives these students an opportunity to shine above a more modest GPA.
I have never worked for a company which is more lenient with regards to GPA’s for URM’s. Never. And my experience spans engineering, accounting/finance, strategy consulting, hedge fund/capital markets, and manufacturing/general management rotational programs.
This is a huge canard “out there” in the real world.
Companies are lenient wrt many elements of holistic review of candidates. But if a company reports that it does not consider GPA’s below 3.2 or whatever the stated number is- don’t think someone is bending the rules for you or for someone else.
What IS variable is how a company will look at a 3.0 in engineering from Cornell (notoriously hard grading school) vs. a 3.0 in engineering from a school with grade inflation or more relaxed standards. And a general management program is going to view a 3.2 in Sociology from U Conn differently from a 3.2 in Philosophy from Princeton or a 3.2 in Classics from U Chicago.
But I have never seen a company which takes AA seriously with two “separate but equal” tracks towards employment. First because it’s a short cut to a costly and visible law suit. (The white girl from rural Alabama has to have a 3.5 from 'bama but the black kid from Short Hills NJ only needs a 3.2? THAT won’t stand up in court…) And second because it’s just plain stupid. Companies set GPA requirements because it allows them to efficiently sort through hundreds of thousands of applicants to get to those that can best do the job, not because they are trying to perform some bizarre rite of social engineering.
Purdue engineering alum here (from many moons ago!) I’d go to Purdue hands down, despite the football team! ( But I do have a little bias). My nephew went to Alabama because he was an in-state student and I’d say he got a decent education in engineering and is employed in Nashville now, but I think Purdue trumps Alabama in engineering. Just my two cents.
I’m kind of surprised that a school would have a GPA minimum on doing a Co-op… My son is applying for ones right now and the companies usually state what the minimum is. I’ve seen ones at 3.5,3.0 and even 2.5… It seems like the larger the company the higher the GPA required.
My tack is a bit different here: I think that, all things being equal, college is a great time to discover another part of the country, its culture, etc. It’s easier to do at 18 than later on, when you have to go where the jobs are or when you have a significant other who may have a job somewhere and you don’t want to have a long-distance relationship. 18 and in college is the perfect time to spread your wings - because even though you go elsewhere, you’re still on a campus, in a dorm, with RAs, a cafeteria where food is prepared for you…
If you son wants to discover Southern culture AND it’s cheaper, why not?
I really don’t think there’ll be a big difference professionally for him.
If you can afford it, try to visit.
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I have never worked for a company which is more lenient with regards to GPA’s for URM’s. Never. And my experience spans engineering, accounting/finance, strategy consulting, hedge fund/capital markets, and manufacturing/general management rotational programs.
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@blossom You may not have encountered it, but certainly my H did (before he retired). As a matter of fact, sometimes HR would “mark out” the GPA on the resume because they wanted the applicant to be evaluated for accomplishments, rather than GPA. And, once my H (without meaning to violate anything), asked what the applicants grades were in a couple of particular courses, and HR later told H not to do that again.
To suggest that it never happens just isn’t true.
@blossom - “I have never worked for a company which is more lenient with regards to GPA’s for URM’s. Never.”
That is not quite how the world works. Most public companies, or companies that are considering going public, have employment officers whose specific duty is to recruit UMRs, and they will bypass the normal hiring process for the “right” candidate.
A company cannot set a minimum and then overlook it for URM. So they don’t set them in stone. They state they’d ‘prefer’ a candidate have a 3.2, or that other aspects will be considered.
We are going through the same thing right now but you would be surprised how wrong your above statement is. (BTW- I thought the same thing until I looked it up.)
The “mean” for all engineering students in colleges across the country is an SAT of 1110 for CR+M.
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-average-sat-score-for-every-college-major-2014-10
Alabama gives its highest merit to 1400 SAT or 32 ACT and above. Those are approximately the top 95% of all test takers and a quantum leap above the average SAT of 1110 for engineering freshmen in college which is approximately the 60 something percentile.
I just found Purdue’s average test scores for their admitted engineering students. The 25th-75th percentile range is 1720-2010 for ALL THREE sections. That would equate to roughly an 1870 for then average which would then equate to approximately 625 per section (or 1250 for M+CR). Now, granted that is using several assumptions (like all 3 sections are equal, etc) but we can get around that by using stats from schools that list their averages for just the CR+M sections.
So, let’s use Georgia Tech Engineering instead and compare.
The middle 50% there (25th-75th percentile) is 1240-1430. That means that Alabama is only offering merit to kids that have stats near the tippy top of the incoming Eng. students at GA Tech (and likely near the top at Purdue Eng. as well).
Good luck with your decision.
Actually in 35 years of being in major companies I have never been asked my GPA, nor have I asked anyone that I have hired. Nobody that I know who has graduated recently has been asked their GPA. Most companies care only about where you went to school (at least once you get past your first job, and probably even then). Several of my good friends have kids that recently got out of top schools with very low GPAs and all got great jobs.
Oldest D went to Purdue. Youngest D considering Purdue, Alabama, SC, or Oklahoma. A professor at OK had great advice for youngest D, he asked her what universities she was considering. His advice: “For undergraduate engineering, go to the University you like. It doesn’t matter which university you pick, you will get the same education at any of these universities. These universities all teach the same courses.” He went on to say, “I don’t care what you did in HS, I’m not giving you any special breaks just because you are a NM.” That OK professor impressed me.
Youngest D is not likely to go to Purdue. She likes the South.
@purpletitan sure if you can afford or pay thru the nose with elite schools. I’m talking more of tech schools like MIT and GT I’m thinking. If you want out of the tech field thru some epiphany you may be screwed. Larger universities with more programs more choices I what I was trying to say. And I know two valedictorians who bombed out of elite schools. They just froze. Didn’t make it thru freshman year. They may have still had a chance to recover at a big state university.
Great discussion here BTW. One of the most enlightening on the subject.
@SandStoner
I agree. Both my husband and oldest son are chemEs. They both work with graduates that run the gamut of schools.
Our son went to a small public tech university and was hired alongside grads from GT, VT, Purdue. They start at the same level,same pay and promotions are based on job performance, not where your degree is from.
OP, our youngest son is a freshman at UA. He loves UA. He is part of their CBH program and he has absolutely nothing but positive things to say about his experience there. He is participating in on-campus research, UA accepted all of his transfer credits (GT would have as well, but GT definitely did not offer him merit scholarships the way UA did.) As a college freshman, he has jr standing, is taking 400 level classes and will be allowed to take grad level classes as an undergrad. ($$ is a huge issue for our family, so UA’s generous allowance of being able to stack scholarships was definitely what pulled our son in that direction. But he has zero regrets and is incredibly thankful for the opportunities that UA has offered him.) ETA: I deleted part of my original post prior to posting and am adding this info back in for clarity: The reason our son has jr standing is b/c he is a gifted young man who started taking science and math classes at our local university in high school.
He says he is surrounded by academic peers in CBH. There is no dearth of academic intellect or excellence on UA’s campus, regardless of outsiders’ perception.
Our D is a ChemE major going to Purdue and is loving her experience and prospering there. I think you have a wonderful situation in that you really do have a first class university to send your child to in state. Purdue is what I would consider a bargain for an engineering degree for the citizens of Indiana. On the other hand having an opportunity to go to Alabama tuition free is an option that should be considered. I think the question becomes "what type of atmosphere do you want? They are both flagships but are going to feel quite different. The differences between north and south are not as pronounced as they once were but are still evident in the speech and mannerisms, the architecture, the perceived pace of things etc. Alabama will be much more focused on football, fraternities/sororities, have much better weather during the standard school year, and a majority of students that come from Alabama and the rest of the south (of course).
I graduated from the University of Southern Mississippi way too long ago and came from Ohio. I started my education at Miami of Ohio. I never felt uncomfortable in Mississippi and felt I received a good education, however, while they were similar schools in size they felt quite different. Things have probably changed since I attended and I’m sure Alabama has a greater diversity than USM did back then but I was always aware that I was not from the south. Compared to USM Miami felt a bit stuffy and pressured and in my case it was Miami that seemed to emphasize fraternities and sororities.
I think in engineering there are a lot of opportunities for those that look for them regardless of where you attend. Our D certainly has been able to take advantage of them at Purdue. I am sure Alabama will offer just as rich a choice but it will be up to your child to seek them out and take advantage of them. I am sure ther will be differences between the two schools but not in the quality of education. Good luck.
Actually, something like 60% of UA’s freshman are from OOS. i dont think any of ds’s close friends are from AL. I think most are from TN, CA, and IL.