<p>Hello,
We are trying to help our son (high school senior) determine whether or not he should pursue an engineering degree or perhaps instead an engineering technology degree. He has an interest in engineering, but, after reading the attrition rate at many colleges, he doesn't have a lot of confidence that he could make it through.
Anyone reading this who has a similar profile as below and either has succeeded or is currently succeeding in acquiring an engineering degree, please speak up and let us know. On the otherhand, if this profile is similar and you did, indeed, have to give up because you found the major too difficult to continue, also please speak up and let us know. It will be most helpful to hear from those who have similarities to our son...</p>
<p>Profile:</p>
<p>Jr year Math SAT : 660 ; Overall score : 2000/2400<br>
Math ACT: 25 ; Overall score 30/36 (hope to raise both a few points<br>
this Sr. year)
Decent at math but not a math lover --particularly dislikes doing
word problems (has about a 3.6 GPA in Alg, I, Geometry, Alg. II & Trig.
Will be taking college PreCalc at local community college this fall).
Enjoys woodworking, and most any kind of hands-on designing and<br>
construction. Has done a little electronic exploration, is
familiar with basic wiring and such but nothing heavy.
Although willing to do so, does not relish the thought of having to use<br>
mathematics to figure out how something should be designed or
assembled.
Friendly and sociable and a good team player, but not a highly ambitious type
Likes troubleshooting problems
Loves all the sciences. Made an A in highschool Physics, Chemistry and<br>
Biology with favorite being Physics.</p>
<p>Our main concern is the issue of math being a central factor in nearly all the courses taken. Have any of you succeeded in engineering (and are glad you did) even though you were never fond of mathematics -- that it was your love for inventing, designing and constructing of things that pulled you through and continued to stimulate your interest in engineering?
Any advice would be most appreciated.
Thanks!</p>
<p>I scored around a 25 on the ACT in math and now in my engineering college I'm getting A's in all my math courses (and like most engineering programs mine is very rigorous). I've always enjoyed math but in high school I didn't study nearly as much as I should have and did not have the ambitions I have now. How much does your son study? The fact is, when you go to an engineering school you either "grow up" and learn study habits and time management or you drop out and go to an easier major. So pretty much ask your son if he's prepared to study and do homework every night for several hours each day. If he does this he will succeed.</p>
<p>The SAT math tests your ability to quickly do simple math. Engineering is more about hard work, so as long as he does not have a mental block against math he shouldn;t worry</p>
<p>660 is more than competent. I have a friend who scored a 100 semester average for calculus (no joke) and also scored a 660 on the math section of the SAT. She has no engineering ambitions, but while math is important, even the most rigorous (save Financial, I don't know if that counts) doesn't usually require math beyond Linear Algebra, and even more frequently, Calculus II.</p>
<p>He had Honors Chemistry but has not taken any AP courses. As a homeschool student he has the ability to be dual enrolled at the community college and starting next week will be taking courses required for NCSU's engineering(Economics, West. Civ., Eng.111 &112, and Gen. Chemistry in addition to the PreCalc class. These will all transfer and therefore should lighten his work load a little while in college. But even with that we are not sure it would be enough to alleviate the extreme mental and physical demands (the math and the long hours devoted to tedious work/labs/projects) it sounds like engineering requires. (Any NCSU students / grads here?)
Thanks for all your comments.... Keep them coming.</p>
<p>One of my son's prospective schools told us that some engineering programs admit more students than they plan to keep, and then use "weed-out" classes to determine who stays in the program, while others are committed to the success of those who are admitted. </p>
<p>This large public school said it was in the second category. Students must meet a benchmark to get into the engineering program (a combination of GPA and math ACT score), but once they get in, the school works with them to make sure they are able to graduate with an engineering degree.</p>
<p>The school said more than 85% of its engineering freshmen would graduate with an engineering degree. I don't know how this compares to other schools; obviously some students will decide to change majors. But the difference in philosophy is worth asking about at other colleges, particularly for students who may not have confidence that they can make it through an engineering program.</p>
<p>"One of my son's prospective schools told us that some engineering programs admit more students than they plan to keep, and then use "weed-out" classes to determine who stays in the program, while others are committed to the success of those who are admitted."</p>
<p>That's what my school does. Requirements for admission are not that high so even if you were not ambitious in high school you still have the opportunity to shine in college. Unfortunately most people don't realize how tough engineering is so half the people here tend to drop out their freshman year.</p>
<p>"This large public school said it was in the second category. Students must meet a benchmark to get into the engineering program (a combination of GPA and math ACT score), but once they get in, the school works with them to make sure they are able to graduate with an engineering degree."</p>
<p>Is it possible for you to disclose which school this is? :-)</p>
<p>"Students must meet a benchmark to get into the engineering program (a combination of GPA and math ACT score), but once they get in, the school works with them to make sure they are able to graduate with an engineering degree"</p>
<p>A state school gave you that description? What kind of requirements do they actually have? Also schools will always say things like "work with the student to make sure they graduate" but it doesn't really mean anything. If a student is failing they are failing. All the school can really do is provide a tutor or something but the school can't guarantee someone will graduate...</p>
<p>The school noted that its most recent class of freshman engineering students had an average ACT score of 28.4. This has been rising; as recently as 2005-06, it was 27.6.</p>
<p>The engineering adviser acknowledged that a few students who keep failing classes will be counseled to switch majors, and others will decide voluntarily that they'd rather major in something else. A few may transfer to other schools or even drop out of college entirely. But ultimately, they said, 85% will complete the engineering program. </p>
<p>I don't know how this compares to other programs, since this was our first visit to an engineering department.</p>
<p>The admission requirements aren't very difficult but looking at the average ACT scores I can see why 85% of students graduate. A 27-28 is a pretty good ACT score so I think your son would do fine there with his SAT scores.</p>
<p>This year I will be an entering Freshman in Engineering school...</p>
<p>My SAT Score was only a 1940 (Lower than your son's). My math sat was similar (680). I took AP Calculus in HS and did horrible (I had A's in every other class).</p>
<p>Yet, I am still more than excited to pursue my degree in Chemical Engineering and am looking forward to graduating with close to a 4.0 GPA. </p>
<p>I would say that you should encourage your son to do whatever he wants to do based on his interest (not his ability to be able to do it). If he really wants to be an engineer, then he should go for it. If he really wants the degree and really wants to do well, then he can definetely get himself to do well. When there's a willing mind, nothing is impossible.</p>
<p>If he really wants to become an engineer, if that's what he is interested in, then that is exactly what he should do. He shouldn't be looking at something else just because he believes that he won't be able to make the cut.</p>
<p>If your son needs help developing this mindset, I suggest he read "Think and Grow Rich" by Napolean Hill (inspired by Andrew Carnegie). If you want to read this book, just PM me (I will show you a site where you can get the ebook for free)....if you want to buy the book...it should be abt $8 in Barnes and Noble</p>
<p>I had a 1660 SAT with no calculus (only took algebra 1 and 2 with a little bit of geometry and trig combined). I'm doing fairly well at a top 15 school program. All I can tell you is that SAT is not everything.</p>
<p>My s and I are on a college visiting tour as we speak. We have visited 5 schools this week and every engineering program has said, "if you love math, chemistry, and physics, you are in the right place". I would recommend looking at the course description of an engineering degree and see how high the math levels go. If he can take AP Calculus and do well that may give a better indication of whether he will be successful. You might look into James Madison University in Harrisonburg, VA as it has the ISAT which is the Integreated Science and Technology school. It is a great program and has all kinds of great concentrations in the engineering and sciences. We just left there so feel free to send me a PM if you would like more info.</p>
<p>Engineering is tough and perhaps the most difficult of disciplines. I think it really does not matter which school one attends, engineers are the ones that seem to always be studying and have the most grueling of workloads, with not much flexibility. If your son is truly passionate, he will find a way to succeed. Yes, I think many schools use freshman year as a weed-out, but perhaps that also helps one realize their potential as well. I also think that if you can survive engineering as an undergrad, you can pretty much go on to handle just about anything. Your work ethic, beyond anything else, will have been transformed into an attractive qualification for employment. It is just the nature of the beast in engineering. The key is finding a school that he will be comfortable with both academically and socially. Good Luck!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, I think many schools use freshman year as a weed-out
[/quote]
Gosh that's nice compared to my alma mater. They used 3rd year as the weedout!</p>
<p>Also, I wouldn't sweat the math SAT score. Engineering is mostly physics sans derivations, so you will much more rely on a good memory / hard work than you will your ability to do basic number theoretic/algebraic/geometric problems. Speaking as an Electrical Engineer grad, the only course I know of that heavily relied on the math ability of its students was digital logic.</p>