<p>Is the skill level highly different between a top academic DIII school and an Ivy? I play soccer and run cross country. My top sport is soccer. However, i know that I will not be eligible for top DI soccer. I know I am likely to be good enough for DIII if I keep progressing and no injuries (I'm only a sophomore), but was just wondering if shooting for a lower Ivy was out of the question or not. Thanks.</p>
<p>I play soccer and I’m currently in the recruiting process. If you have any questions PM me and I’ll do my best!</p>
<p>To answer your question: The idea that DI is automatically better soccer than DIII is a myth. The best DIII teams can compete with some of the best DI teams. Its more a question of academic preference or scholarships. I know that DI at say UNC, Maryland, Duke, UCLA or what not is VERY high level, the best in the country. The ivies have a different goal though, since they cannot scholarship players and get them automatically admitted, they have to seek out players that can get in to the school and can play soccer, so their level tends to be a little below the top DI teams, though Cornell right now is #24 in the nation! DIII schools tend to be like ivies in the sense that they need students that can get into the school academically and play soccer. I am currently talking to a few DIII colleges that have outstanding academics and outstanding soccer programs, so I have to be good at both. Saying an Ivy or DIII isn’t as good as a normal DI school is a fallacy many players fall into. </p>
<p>If you have any more questions just ask!</p>
<p>AWflapjackz,</p>
<p>I have a different perspective than ATP. I think the majority of D1s including Ivys have better athletics than the majoirty of D3s. There is more team depth at D1 for all sports(period). Are there some D3s that may be competive with some D1s in some sports, sure. But overall D1 inclduing Ivys have more practice time, more $$ resources, deeper teams and play stronger competition.</p>
<p>I think you are asking the wrong questions. Academics will be your biggest differentiator not athletics if you are considering Ivy & top D3 schools. Athletics can be a minor differentiator (or hook) if you have the skill to compete at D1 Ivy or elite D3 level. Both Ivys and D3s will seek out recruits who are being recruited by traditional D1s, but the rules are the same for them, they have to have the grades. It is true that you must impress the coaches who will recommend you, but the coaches know you have to have the grades to get in, and they don’t control that. </p>
<p>Whether it is Ivy or D3 it really doesn’t make a difference. There are vastly more important things IMHO. You can look at the rosters of the teams you are considering. I would look for trends. Do they start a lot of freshmen? Do they start mostly upper classmen? These are keys to understanding how easy or difficult it is to make the starting lineup and the talent required. This is key to understanding what school may best fit your athletic requirements, and a coach that needs your talent.</p>
<p>Every high school player who is lucky enough to make it to the next level thinks it will be easy to make the starting team as it was in high school…IT ISN’T at any level. My best advice is to think about what is most important to you…either playing time or playing on a good team. In most cases if the team is really good, you will sit for a year or two until you earn your spot. This happens at Ivy and D3, so again those levels don’t mean anything until you consider your skills relative to the team you are considering.</p>
<p>Best of luck.</p>
<p>Study the bios of players on Ivy and top D3 rosters, to get a feel for the level of talent. Look at where your HS/club teammates, or those you compete with now, go on to play. How do they do on those teams? As FW says ^^, think about how important playing time is to you.</p>
<p>Thanks for the responses, all of you have given me stuff to think about. My high school regularly sends a handful to D3 each year, a couple of DI here and there.</p>
<p>Also, don’t believe people if they say that “you need the grades for both of them.” This is not true. </p>
<p>I was recruited by Johns Hopkins, UChicago, WashU, Pomona, Wesleyan, etc. and the coaches could’ve had a good shot at getting me in despite not being a qualified applicant without athletics. However, Yale and Dartmouth both stopped recruiting me because my grades weren’t high enough. </p>
<p>There is a difference between top D3 and Ivy admissions.</p>
<p>Anchser it depends on the school, a top DIII college I am currently being recruited by requires my academic to be good, and just like Ivys would drop me. </p>
<p>I still disagree with fenwaysouth, some of the best DIII colleges can compete with the best DI, at least in soccer!</p>
<p>^^ There are DIIIs and there are DIIIs, Anscher. NESCAC schools require similar academics for their athletes as Ivies. While I don’t know Wesleyan, I can say for Amherst and Williams, if you are not a kid who would make it academically without athletics, you will not be “tipped”. This was told directly to my D-- who then chose NESCAC over the Ivies where she was being actively recruited as well.</p>
<p>There is a wonderful article today that is on the NCAA DIII FB page about the trend for successful DI coaches and ADs to seek out jobs at DIII schools. I know of a very successful DIII coach who was being pursued strongly by an Ivy and told them no thanks, but he liked his student-athletes-- rather than athletes who happen to go to college.</p>
<p>^ Nice article. I think one of the big draws for coaches to go D3 is that they’re still able to have a life. There is a quote in “Playing the Game” by Chris Lincoln - </p>
<p>“Well I look at Williams and Middlebury, those are good jobs. I’m talking to Mickey Heinecken (Midd football head coach) and he’s sailing up on Lake Champlain on Sundays. Christ, what am I doing? I’m in here all day looking at film, racing around…”</p>
<pre><code> -John Lyons, Head Football Coach at Dartmouth
</code></pre>
<p>I think both the NESCAC and Ivy League do as good of a job as any of respecting the “student” part of student -athlete.</p>
<p>Awflapjackz my only advice is to email several coaches. The worst that they can tell you is that they don’t want you for soccer, you can still apply for the school. I know that several of the schools I’m talking to are extremely good at soccer, and I may not be able to play there, but I’m trying anyway! It can only help.</p>
<p>While visiting a few NESCAC schools, there were baseball players that had 3.2 GPAs and 27 on the ACT. </p>
<p>I don’t think that could fly at an Ivy school.</p>
<p>Not trying to be argumentative, just what I’ve noticed from meeting recruits/current players at NESCAC and Ivies. (Disclaimer: I didn’t visit Williams or Amherst. They are probably equivalent to the Ivies.)</p>
<p>Anscher-3.2 GPA in high school, or at the NESCAC school(s) you were visiting? Also, don’t get too hung up on standardized tests. A 27 ACT is nothing to write home about. But it’s hardly a sign that the student is unable to do the work. In fact, at Bowdoin (4th ranked among the 11 NESCAC schools by USNWR), standardized tests are optional.</p>
<p>A 3.2 in high school (they were freshmen). Maybe I just happened to encounter extreme outliers?</p>
<p>And Anchser there are Ivies and there are Ivies-- look at Cornell (the hotel management school) or Barnard for women at Columbia with a much less rigorous academic profile…for examples… Rather than League and Division, it is best to write about each college and what it requires.</p>
<p>To take etondad’s point a step further, I think you have to look at the major at the Ivy school or the college you are applying into. Typically D3 are not universities, so it is tough to do. However, at Ivys acceptance rates vary considerably by colleges within the University. </p>
<p>The Dean for the College of Engineering (at son’s Ivy) told the 2014 students and parents at orientation the engineering acceptance rate was 7%, and they had another 7% (not admitted) with almost identical scores as the first 7%. I know for a fact the architectual school is just as difficult. This is at one of the Ivys mentioned above by etondad. The devil is in the details.</p>
<p>Good points guys. I am committing to a NESCAC school next week so (un)fortunately I won’t have to worry!</p>
<p>While you can “commit” to a NESCAC school via ED, it doesn’t “commit” to you in any way, shape, or form, despite whatever assurances your recruiting coach can muster. Unlike the Ivys, NESCAC simply does not do likely letters and, as a consequence, the comfort level on the admission front is comparatively (indeed, far) lower. To be sure, if your academic numbers and record are solid, that, plus a favorable “pre-read” and a coach using one of his/her alloted “slots” on you, can reduce stress levels, increase admission predictability, and decrease surprises. YMMV.</p>
<p>While you’re right and nothing is guaranteed, by the coach offering a slot and you accepting (“committing”), there isn’t a very good chance that you’ll be rejected. The schools I am deciding between have gone a combined perfect 24/24 with their baseball commits in the last two classes. I’d actually be curious to see the admissions rates for recruited athletics at ivy vs NESCAC schools.</p>
<p>Good luck Anchser with the ED process. My son (baseball) went the ED route too, as we were late (a week) to the Likely Letter process. It was a little nerve wracking between the time he applied (nov 1) and was accepted (dec 10) but it turned out very well. There was no doubt in his mind this was the best school for him. We received a few phone calls from the coach during this “ED waiting time” telling us everything was “good” and he also asked my son for his hat size and shoe size. This was the coaches way of telling my son that he was accepted without telling him he was accepted. Bottom line is the coaches know exactly what is going on, but they can’t say anything.</p>
<p>We researched the heck out of both Ivy and NESCAC and I don’t think you can go wrong either way. I really like the way they operate, and I feel it is the standard to measure academics and athletics together for the benefit of the student. Again good luck with baseball at the next level.</p>
<p>BTW - Did you see former Trinity head coach Decker is now head coach at Harvard?</p>