I would not want any newbie, not even started in med school, writing medical input. 1st and 2nd year med students have enough trouble honing in on what’s relevant, they train in this.
Otoh, US students volunteeting in 3rd world countries may be doing this. And more.
I believe all patients should have full knowledge of who (by at least first name, dept. and role) is seeing them, participating, or observing an appointment, drawing blood, etc. While I respect the need for training, sometimes it is important for a frail person to know if a medical history interview is for teaching purposes vs critical to their care.
We live in an area full of renowned teaching hospitals, with the accompanying residents, trainees, interns, med students, etc. I’ve learned to ask directly who has entered the room and their role if they don’t fully introduce themselves. Big red flag if they are vague or don’t answer. That only happened once; but it has been surprisingly common for staff to fail to introduce themselves initially in in-patient settings. I understand how easy it is for clinical staff to get complacent with a constant parade of various trainees, yet being specific should be routine.
Well, we don’t know whether the young man that the OP’s doctor introduces as an “intern” was shadowing or performing scribe functions - or doing a combination of both. They taking medical notes on the computer part sounds scribe-ish. Part of the problem may be the private office setting. My DIL was an emergency room scribe – so I’d assume that she was hired for a very specific function and job title, given that she was working at a hospital with many employees. But I have had doctors who had solo practices, with very few employees – and in a small office setting there may be more flexibility and overlap in the functions a single employee might fill.
I’d note that I’m more comfortable these days seeing a doctor within a larger clinic setting largely because of the availability of good support staff & systems. I have had some bad experiences with record keeping issues with doctors in smaller practices — (for example, a doctor who only kept records for 3 years and was unable to confirm one way or another the type of vaccination given 5 years previously).
I think the lesson for the OP is simply not to be afraid to ask more questions about a staff member’s role or training. Obviously, in a private clinic setting, “intern” is ambiguous.
Imo, that’s the crux, calmom. OP doesnt know what role this fellow was playing. He was described as an intern, not a scribe. In a medical setting, it’s reasonable to assume the medical use of “intern.” Turned out, hasn’t even started med school.
Different, if he’d been described as an IT intern. Eg, verifying some new software, in real context. Or as a paid scribe.
And if the fellow hadn’t said gap year before applying.
To my, bottom line is how this was left unclear.
It sounds like you aren’t familiar with what a medical scribe does. Here’s a job description – I don’t think there are any particular educational qualifications required. –https://ahdpg.com/medical-scribe-the-job-description/
And here’s a link to job listings on Indeed so you can get a sense of what employers actually require – some want a bachelor’s degree, some will hire with a high school diploma only – https://www.indeed.com/q-Medical-Scribing-jobs.html
He was not called a scribe. He was called an intern.
I’ve known medical scribes. Yes, they may be in the room. May be.
Entering notes doesnt mean he was trained as a scribe, much less, a paid employee.
An intern to me in the medical context is a doctor that has completed medical school and is in their first PGY or first year of residency. A scribe should never introduce themself as an intern to the patient IMHO.
Agreeing with most: the use of the word “intern” in this case can be found in the dictionary under “deliberately disingenuous.” Anyone with any medical experience knows it is misleading in this context.
I agree the doctor should have been clear about this person’s role.
But I will say…it seems like EVERY summer or GAO year job is now called an “internship”… and I find that annoying. Why not just call it a job!
It sounds like this gap year student is interning doing something in the doctors office. Clearly he is not a medical intern…
Don’t these folks wear identifying name tags? Everyone at my docs office does. If there is a student there, the name tag says…student.
Also, any time an extra person for any reason is in the examining room, the patient is asked if it’s ok. You know…it’s OK to request that a real first year resident not be in your exam also. Some folks prefer their doctor only.
I have never asked anyone drawing blood for their background and role. Is this unusual ? Even at a clinic er or docs office.
Or the person who walks in asking questions or the volunteer who asks if I need anything.
Or anyone shadowing the doctor.
What are they going to post my ekg on Reddit or something? Make fun of me after I leave and talk about me? Probably not and I don’t care anyway.
If helps train someone for the future, why not. It’s not like there cutting me open or touching me. Not even talking most of the time.
If it’s obgyn or the like. It’s ok to ask for limited participation.
Other than that it isn’t an issue for me. I just don’t care or think they’re dwelling on my case all day.
But for others it bothers just tell them it bothers you. The student will leave as fast as the speed of light.
Mine don’wear name tags. I have to ask the others’ names. The exception is clinics where they run back and forth to the hospital. Then they have the lanyard, though who can read those.
The lol is: until another CC thread, I didn’t even realize the first person to (lead me to and) speak with me in the room is not a nurse, but a med asst. Not an idiot, just never thought to qualify.
I’ve had plenty of shadowing pre med students, med school students, and residents in my various medical things with the brain tumor et more. All I could think of each time is, “I’m glad to help others see and learn because someday eons ago, some folks helped train my doctors.” I let the high school anatomy teacher use some things to help his classes too - esp since my youngest lad was in his classes at the time and it helped him to be able to better understand the physical nature of things with the tumor.
It probably comes as no surprise that when I pass on my first choice is to donate my body to science if at all possible.
And allow me to offer thanks to all of those who have been letting my current med school lad shadow and practice before he takes the reins.
There was a HIPAA violation once that I know of, but that didn’t come from a shadowing student or resident. It came from my family doctor’s office (I’m pretty sure). I wasn’t going to tell anyone about the BT at school at first, but the day I walked in the door after learning about it the first student I saw came up to me and gave me a hug telling me he was sorry and telling me that if I needed anything, he and other students would be there for me. I was astounded at first and didn’t know what to think, but after letting it dwell in my mind a little bit I ended up with a type of contentment loving small town life and knowing folks genuinely cared about each other.
I’m not so sure I’d feel the same if someone knew ahead of time about pregnancy or anything “dicey” with my health so I’m still a little on the fence with it, but such is small town life sometimes. I know teachers who head out of town for their basic health care.
Small town is a good point and I hadn’t considered. My frame of reference is people I wouldn’t see again or remember in the densely populated region and not in my home town. Docs are in the city.
One small funny story. I’m on a fairly prestigious board in the city. We had an event and my psychiatrist walks into a major event. His wife had just been elected and approved to join the board. By me as head of the nominating committee. She was very excited to introduce us. It didn’t bother me at all. He looked like are you sure this is the right board for you. Lol. We pretended we didn’t know each other but I know he was shocked. He’s a bit of an elitist anyway. But funny. We talked about it at my next appointment. He probably doesn’t think of his patients as part of his world. Or maybe he thinks I’m bats… crazy. lol.
Just coming back to this thread - for clarity: the ‘intern’ was not a pre-med, but was undergrad on a gap year (I do not know his undergrad degree; for all I know, it could have been the History of Dirt). He (the intern) was not introduced as a scribe, he was specifically introduced as ‘my intern’. His note taking/ scribing was on the hospital system computer monitor, therefore, I doubt he was making personal notes. I am not particularly bothered he was in the room, I was just more curious, and maybe even a little concerned by wondering if it were within HIPAA compliance to have this person, introduced as in intern. but in fact, not a first year dr, not a med. school student and not even a medical practice employee, knee-deep in my husband’s medical business.
All of your responses have been very interesting, thank you!
Did he tell you he was not being paid? How do you know he was not an employee of the medical practice?
Does it matter? OP was concerned a person was intro’d a an intern, in a context where that can be expected to mean through med school.
The rest, we’ll never know. The issue is the patient’s ease. We can conjecture all sorts of things, but only knowwhat we know.
It can matter as to HIPAA compliance, which the OP has voiced concern about.
Not just anyone can access a hospital computer system. This leads me to believe that this guy was either using someone else’s credentials to access the system (which would be a huge violation of hospital policy and likely of HIPAA regulations) or he is actually employed and has valid access to the hospital computer system and patient PHI. The issue of being introduced as an intern in a context where that would usually imply he is a doctor is separate from the HIPAA concerns, because one does not necessarily need to be a doctor or other licensed individual to have valid access to the chart.
If he is an employed individual working with the physician, then he would be considered to be a valid part of the team and would be committing no HIPAA violation unless he were to reveal PHI to others who are NOT members of the care team.
Doctors often introduce their MAs (medical assistants) as nurses. In most states the word “nurse” is a legally protected title that can only be used by licensed nurses (LPN, LVN, RN, advanced practice nurses). Doctors know this and do it anyway. Some MAs will even go so far as to refer to themselves as “Dr. So and So’s nurse.” Most MAs probably just don’t bother to correct people when they are called nurses. All of this is inappropriate (and in many states, illegal.) Also inappropriate imo is calling this young man an intern in that setting.
Maybe the OP (or better yet, her husband, who was actually the patient) could/should give the MD a call–to find out if HIPAA violations have occurred and to explain to the MD that calling an employee who is not a doctor an “intern” is rather disingenuous and confusing for patients who might otherwise balk at allowing that individual to be present during an exam or interview.
HIPAA has nothing to do with it; that law governs who is allowed to access health records (the treatment team) and what health care workers are allowed to disclose. He was introduced inappropriately. If he underwent HIPAA training and was working at the practice, there’s no violation. That doesn’t mean that everything was handled correctly.
When people are given titles that are confusing and misleading it is understandable that one may lose come trust and confidence in the integrity of the organization who provided the title and introduction. I’d mention it to the doctor’s office, since it is obviously bothering the patient and family.
Nrds, all the guidelines I’ve seen say HIPAA needs to be adhered to and this person should have had the training. Nothing we know suggests he didn’t. Even I have to do HPI confidentiality training, as a hospice volunteer.
But no, we don’t know what this fllow had. Or not.