<p>I'm thinking about starting to shadow this summer (freshman year) but is it okay if I shadow someone who is not a physician? I would like to get into holistic medicine, and was hoping to shadow someone who is in that field ... would this count toward general shadowing hours for med school? would you recommend it?</p>
<p>For AMCAS and AACOM, the individual you shadow must be a physician (MD or DO) for it to be included under shadowing on your application.</p>
<p>thanks for that clarification. Would an MD from China work as well?</p>
<p>Is the physician licensed in the US? Does s/he practice as a MD (not a naturopath or accupuncturist or some other alternative practice) in the US? If yes to both, then it would be acceptable. If not, then no.</p>
<p>Might still be fun and interesting, even if it doesn’t “count” toward med school.</p>
<p>Hmm, I guess that doesn’t count, then. What about someone who has an MD but …</p>
<p>— is a core clinical faculty member at Bastyr Center for Natural Health, supervising students in naturopathic family medicine. She has been practicing clinical medicine for 15 years, first in conventional psychiatry (general and child and adolescent) and currently in naturopathic medicine.</p>
<p>Probably not since naturopaths (whatever their training) are not recognized as practicing physicians by AMCAS or AACOM.</p>
<p>NOOO. Wait, are you serious? It won’t count at ALL? That’s … lame. I think I’ll do it anyways … I really really want to shadow a naturopath. :/</p>
<p>If you want to shadow a naturopath, then go do so. You may find it fascinating and informative. You just can’t count it as physician shadowing for AMCAS.</p>
<p>Medicine is a very conservative profession and naturopathy is unregulated in many US legal jurisdictions. </p>
<p>(Meaning in the eyes of many physicians, naturopath = quack. In my state anyone can hang out a shingle and call themselves a naturopath. No training required. No licensing or insurance requirements either.) </p>
<p>Also the foundational tenets of naturopathy are at odds with evidence based medicine (EBM) which is the heart of physician training in the US.</p>
<p>So the “40 hours of shadowing” that is suggested is the one that you are referring to, right? </p>
<p>I disagree a lot with conventional wisdom thrown to students at med school, so that’s mostly why I want to shadow a naturopath. </p>
<p>Wouldn’t she count as a letter of recommendation, though? </p>
<p>Finding a “proper physician” then would require me to go to my primary practitioner, or something of that sort, right? Maybe through volunteering in the hospital?</p>
<p>A naturopath would be a terrible LOR to use for med school application, IMO. As I said, many physicians view naturopaths as straight-up quacks. And adcomms are made up of physicians (with a few research scientists thrown in for good measure).</p>
<p>Besides med schools specifically ask for LORs from professors who know you in an academic setting who are able to compare you and your ability/ academic prowess to other students they’ve taught. </p>
<p>Yes, finding a “proper physician” may require you to go thru your PCP or to meet one thru hospital or other volunteering.</p>
<p>The road to medical school is full of hoops–get used to jumping through them.</p>
<p>the fact that she’s also a MD doesn’t change anything? 
(and that she practiced for a decade or so as a MD before doing naturopathy?)</p>
<p>sigh.</p>
<p>Just curious, if you believe this: </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Then why do you want to go to med school?</p>
<p>If you’re interested in becoming a naturopath, you could go to naturopathic school.</p>
<p>"I’m thinking about going out for the NBA draft, so I’m going to practice a lot this summer. Is it okay if I practice cricket instead of basketball? I would like to go into cricket, and was hoping to practice cricket. Would this count towards basketball practice time? Would you recommend it?</p>
<p>What about somebody who plays ping-pong? Would that work as well?</p>
<p>What about somebody who used to play basketball, but now is a coach for cricket? Can I practice cricket with him, and have the NBA count it as basketball?</p>
<p>NOOO. Wait, are you serious? It won’t count at all for the NBA? that’s… lame. I think I’ll do it anyway. I really really want to practice cricket.</p>
<p>I really don’t like basketball even though I want to play in the NBA, so that’s mostly why I want to practice cricket. Wouldn’t my cricket coach and practice sessions count for a recommendation?</p>
<p>The fact that he used to play basketball doesn’t change anything?"</p>
<p>ha ha. </p>
<p>sigh. well, i’m really trying to reconcile the teachings of med school with the teachings of naturopathic medicine. That’s why I want to go to med school first, then spend some time in naturopathic school. </p>
<p>I guess I’ll have to find a physician :P</p>
<p>So, is your proposed plan something like this:</p>
<p>undergrad > med > residency > practice > naturopathic school > naturopath</p>
<p>And, if so, why the med step? I’m not trying to be a jerk. I’m really just curious. It sounds like the two have opposite philosophies, and I can’t quite wrap my head around how you could be trained thoroughly in one and then switch to the other. (Not to mention, the significant investment of time and money you’d need to sacrifice to accomplish both.) How is this path superior than just practicing alternative medicine?</p>
<p>no, you’re not being a jerk 
</p>
<p>it’s because then I can practice as a “doctor” with a MD or DO and then using what I learned in naturopathic school to complement my method of treatment. You get the best of both worlds then. And I think going straight into naturopathic school might not be so great simply b/c of job opportunities without an official MD (that’s what I heard, at least) since alternative medicine is only recently gaining ground in the med community.</p>
<p>I’m not familiar enough with the law to speak definitively on this subject, but I’m concerned that you may get into legal trouble in the scenario you outline. Like, very serious legal trouble.</p>
<p>The two fields are different. Asking patients to trust you because you have an MD, and pretending that you’re using it as you examine and treat them, and then prescribing naturopathic treatments while under that umbrella – there are serious legal questions involved. Not just lawsuit type questions, but possibly even criminal concerns.</p>
<p>Imagine a person who is falsely accused of murder and who hires a lawyer. The lawyer assures him that the attorney is a J.D. in good standing with the state bar – but it turns out that much of the advice he offers is made by consulting tarot cards and fortunetellers. This is totally unacceptable, because (1) he doesn’t always tell clients exactly which decisions come from Ouija boards and which come from actual legal expertise, and (2) clients might figure that since he’s licensed, they can trust his legal judgment.</p>
<p>Hmm, but I think that many MDs have NDs as well, right? You can just list in your practice that you treat with both philosophies, can’t you?</p>
<p>The naturopathic route is focused on using lifestyle changes to treat. I don’t think that will cause any lawsuits, as most MDs also give limited lifestyle advice. I would just go more in depth.</p>
<p>And it sounds like you’re comparing the naturopathic route with ‘tarot cards and fortune tellers’ … not a fair comparison by any means :P</p>
<p>I’m not sure what you mean by “many.”</p>
<p>At a minimum, you’d have to be very very careful when you explain which element you’re using as you make decisions, and I suspect there are some states that simply wouldn’t let you combine practices like this at all because it would confuse patients. If I’m right, then you’d have to pick one or the other and practice only under one umbrella. But I haven’t done the legal research on the matter.</p>
<p>Fortunetellers and tarot card readers would be very offended by your statement. Which doesn’t by itself make you wrong but is worth pointing out.</p>