Question for TransitionSuccess

<p>I saw your post stating that LD students should study for shorter periods (to keep attention high) rather than longer blocks. Many LD students, however, also have difficulty transitioning and settling-in - - which can significantly decrease productive study time. </p>

<p>If a student studies for an hour and intends to take a 10 min break, which spirals into a 30 min break, the student has spent 90 mins, only 60 of which were devoted to productive studying.</p>

<p>If students spending, on average, 2-3 hours studying for every in-class hour, that's 32-48hr/wk studying. If, for a LD student a productive hour of studying is, in real time, 90 mins- - well, there just might not be enough hours in the day.</p>

<p>Is there a solution, other than significantly reducing the course load? Is ther an optimum or suggest study to break ratio?</p>

<p>I don't think that TransitionSuccess intended this solution as a cure all for all LD students, but for students with attentional issues who get sharply diminishing returns if they spend more than a certain amount of time on a particular task, and who are refreshed by a brief break</p>

<p>To my mind, it seems important to put the student in the role of scientist figuring out a system, or set of procedures, that work best for him. If working for an hour with a ten minute break is a washout for a particular kid, he can then work (perhaps with a coach or learning expert) to find a new approach that suits him better. Also, the level of interest in a particular subject, or how tired the kid is on a particular evening, may play into what works, so it is good if the kid has an array of approaches he can use to master different situations. </p>

<p>Finally, our experience is that with some academic tasks or combinations of classes, there really aren't enough hours in the day. For us, it has been very important to look at our kid's academic schedule very seriously and realistically. In high school, at least one class a year that should have been honors or AP given the kid's level of achievement in the preceding class has been kept in the middle track because the work load was not realistic given the number of hours in a day. (Kid did extremely well in these scaled back classes, but enjoyed them, and did not feel bored as the teachers were excellent.)</p>

<p>Since you mention AP/honors classes and the fact that you are very involved in setting S's academic schedule, it's clear you're talking about a hs student. (My question was about college, students; sorry if I was unclear.) </p>

<p>I fear that that, in hs as well as college, w/o such parental input, LD students are likely to flounder. In college, many the strategies parents employ with hs students are not available. For example, most colleges do not offer different tracks of the same course. One may opt to repeat some course work to get a running start (especially in math and lang sequences), but if one has to take Calc III, there is often only one section.</p>

<p>I aslo assume that these matters have been studied and that there are some guidlines regarding what is are better and worse study/break/transition ratios.I was just wondering what the experts thought wise - - sat least as a starting point (and conversely, what the experts considered ill-advised).</p>

<p>NYC --</p>

<p>Our S is about to enter college, so we will be facing the issue of our son dealing with academic demands and scheduling independently soon! The thing we're looking at here is the challenge of courses that have an extremely heavy reading load and whether he can stagger these with courses that don't have the same load and with more technical or creative classes. My hope is that the college's office that supports students with LD's will be highly competent and that our S will take advantage of their services when he needs them. I continue to think that what system works for a particular student is very individual, even among groups of students who have the same diagnosis, but I don't know the research and am very interested in what TransitionSuccess will tell us.</p>

<p>I don't think anyone can offer specific study advice without knowing the individual student. In my evaluations, I'm much less focused on the amount of time an individual studies than their strategy for learning. If a student has been diagnosed with a learning disorder than there was likely a neuropsychological evaluation. The neuropsychologist should have helped the student to identify his/her best learning approaches. If you did not get that information, PM me backchannel and I can give you some names of people in NYC. My practice is on Long Island but I have several great collegues in the city. "Studying" for a fixed period of time is rarely an efficient approach for students who have difficulties acquiring new information. They end up focused on the clock and the upcoming break. If a student is having trouble remaining engaged in coursework, more interactive learning approaches are likely a better answer than a fixed self-reward system.</p>

<p>Thank you both. </p>

<p>Neuro, I don't really need advice or referral. My question was somewhat hyhpothetical, but based on D's difficulty in transitioning. TransitonSuccess's advice to study for shorter periods just didn't seem practical for students who were distractable or who had transition issues common among LD students. </p>

<p>I agree that the learning strategy is the key. For my D, the challenge is setting aside enough time to do her work. Like most post-adolescents (including those w/o LD issues), impulse control is an isue; D needs to say "no, thank you" to more of the endless impromptu invitation from dorm-mates, so that she can stay on top of her work. (I have suggested studying at the library, but she refuses to consider that option.)</p>

<hr>

<p>AnnoyM, good luck to you. D just completed her first-year at a top LAC w/ a great disability office. Sadly, D has been unwilling to avail herself of many of the services (other than using disability to get a single room, usually not available to first-years). D's school is very flexible and has no geneds or distrib requirements, so she has not encountered the scheduling probles that some of her friends have, either in terms of satisfying requirements or sequencing. Still, she had to drop a course 2nd semester (in part due to illness, but also b/c she had fallen behind in th work), which she will make up this summer. </p>

<p>Certainly, there are no one-size-fits-all solutions. But college semesters are so short and b/c there are fewer tests/projects, I don't think students really have the time to experiment w/ different study systems. Try one thing for mid-terms; try something else for finals - - only two shots and if neither works, you've blown a year. Fortunately, this was not D's experience.</p>

<p>The school is unconcerned. First-year students often have to drop a course (the school even has a special frosh-drop, which allows first-years to drop a course VERY late in the semester). Her gpa is low (2.3), but the school doesn't count first-year grades in the overall gpa. Still, there were enough close calls that I remain fearful/cautious - - especially w/ a LD student who might not internalize these lessons as promptly as her age peers.</p>

<p>One of the prerequisites for college success is discipline. If you turn a 5 minute break (to get a snack, get some fresh air,etc) into 30 minutes after a short study period, you are showing a lack of discipline. </p>

<p>Maybe we need to approach this a different way. HOW are you studying? Maybe your study method is boring - I would suggest using your textbook's accompanying website for interactive exercises that engage you. Your studying should use as many senses as possible to get the info into your long-term memory. This includes reading,writing (i.e.Cornell note,flashcards),speaking (you can make a tape of yourself reviewing the information;take it in the car with you), listening and doing. </p>

<p>I'll end with an interesting story... when students tell me they have failed a test, I immediately ask them how they studied. I get the same answer almost all the time. They say, "In the last 4 days, I read the chapter X number of times and understood it' I tell them that I now see. Reading is passive; your eyes can be going over the words, while your mine is a thousand miles away. It is different to "understand" something when you read it than to have to regurgitate it. Your last study step should be your "dress rehearsal" - just as actors wouldn't put on a performance without it, neither should a student enter an exam without a rehearsal. To sum it up, this student made two egregious errors -- studying passively and cramming (4 days is usually insufficient time to study for an exam, considering you have other work to do). Oh, by the way, a chapter should only be read ONCE. At that time, you should either be annotating the text or taking Cornell notes. Once you extract the impt material, that is what you study. There is no need to read the entire chapter again!</p>

<p>Sure, stretching a 5 min bread to 20-30min shows a lack of discipline - - but it is also related to distractability and impulse control both of which are problems for some LD students (particularly those w/ ADD). Also, I did say that even if the break is only 5 min, time spent transitioning back to study mode means less actual productive study time. </p>

<p>My question was really about a strategy (short study periods w/ more breaks), which seemed contrary to what might work best for a LD student who is easily distracted. Of course, any stratedy is more difficult for the LD student. So even the short study sessions poses some problems (distraction, transition time) it could still be a better systme than longer, less productive study sessions. I was just wondering whether you had actually factored in the distraction/transition "cost."</p>

<p>HI NYC --
There is no one-size-fits-all answer for how to study. For those students who can attend for a couple of hours and maintain a high level of attention, there is no need to stop and take a break. However, for example, if after an hour their eyes are merely glazing over the words, then studying as it "should be" has already ended. For these students, there is no point in continuing. In my experience, it's the short, frequent sessions that work best for retention. If taking a short break doesn't work b/c of the difficulty of resuming, perhaps that student can shoot for four to six half-hour sessions spaced throughout the day. I tell my students there is no ONE right way -- while I make suggestions, they need to experiment to find the optimal solution that works for them.</p>

<p>I am personally familiar with the problems ADDers have with attention and discipline - I have an LD/ADD son who went to college. At some point however, intrinsic motivation has to overrule impulse -- whether through behavior mod or medication. In my 15 years of working with college disabilities, I have yet to see an undisciplined student do well. In fact, lack of discipline, not poor ability, is the key factor in doing poorly. Students must understand that their decisions can either empower them or cause them to stumble. This means learning to say no to weekday parties, studying in a conducive environment even if all your friends are in the dorm, keeping employment hours to a minimum, etc. Perhaps a student who isn't ready to handle all the outside distractions can start at a community college to get a sense of the demand of college courses.</p>

<p>To address your question about 32 hours of studying a week, NO ONE should be spending that much time on school work. It is very important for students to lead a balanced life. If the student's schedule requires that amount of studying, he/she definitely needs to take a reduced course load. In addition, students who register with the disability office (where they are known) are more likely to receive schedules that are balanced.. i.e. two challenging courses + two less-challenging per semester. Another suggestion that helps retention is to take the more challenging courses on MWF (again, shorter, more frequent exposure) and the easier classes on Tu/Th.</p>

<p>I hope this helps clarify the studying issue.</p>

<p>To AnonyMom --
One of the first mistakes LD students make before they even enter a college classroom is not disclosing to the disability center. After the many years of being labeled, they want to shed the "LD" tag and go it alone. What they don't realize is that there is NO stigma to disclosure in college, only advantages. While everyone in HS knows who the Special Ed students are, they are anonymous in college. It is only the student, the Disab. Center, and the professors with whom the student shares the info who know. Students can disclose and still choose to go it alone, if they wish - at least they have a safety net, so if they do need accommodations, they are already in place. That said, it's a very good sign your son is willing to disclose!</p>

<p>In the course that I wrote for special ed HS students and their parents, I also highly recommend the need for STRONG academic support for most students, at least the first few semesters, . Students in HS Special Ed classes often have watered-down curriculua; they are ill-prepared to tackle research papers, long-term assignments, organizational requirements, etc. College often hits them like a ton of bricks. I wouldn't count on most colleges having very good support services unless they have a particular program that charges extra. While this does add to the tuition, it sets the student up for success, which is worth its weight in gold. Students who start out strongly are motivated to continue - success breeds success. For those who are at a school where there is no program, I recommend finding the best tutor (preferably a learning specialist) to work with them at least 2 -3 times/week. Once students have a couple of successful semesters under their belt, they have "learned how to learn" and understand the college system - at this point, they can use tutoring as needed or even the Learning Center for the college-at-large. The Learning Center is usually not a good initial solution b/c it operates on a drop-in basis. Students are often given quick explanations b/c others are waiting. The tutors there are not used to breaking concepts into small understandable parts, the way LD students learn.</p>

<p>If going away to school and private tutoring are prohibitive, I suggest starting at a community college where tuition is low - just consider private tutoring to be part of the tuition. Trust me --I have seen many students who didn't get individual help leave school discouraged and ashamed. If only they had set themselves up for success from day one, the outcome would have been far different.</p>

<p>Starting off on a strong footing is a critical factor in self-esteem and desire to continue. My best advice is to do anything you can to see that this happens.
Best of luck to you and your son!</p>

<p>Transition Success, How do you find a school with these support services? Or, what is the best way to find a learning specialist tutor?</p>