<p>We just got the ACT score back and I am somewhat concerned.
My son got a 33 composite, which is great --but on ACT plus writing he was given only an 8 out of 12 on the essay. Since he is applying to be a writing major, I am wondering if this means he should take the entire test again? His composite writing+english was a 31 (98th) percentile, which isn't bad --but that 8 subscore (81st percentile) is what concerns me.</p>
<p>I want to emphasize that the score of 33 is just fine for him --is is the 8 subscore that concerns me. What do you make of this?</p>
<p>D got it, too (an 8 essay) and it doesn't look great ,does it? She's retaking even though she hates to lose her 36 math. We'll see. That's why score choice is such a winner for the ACT. She's prepping her tail off for the essay and science. Everything else was great. Sure wish schools would do best subsection on ACT like they do on SAT.</p>
<p>"She's retaking even though she hates to lose her 36 math. Sure wish schools would do best subsection on ACT like they do on SAT."</p>
<p>Humm. Why would she lose a 36 and not submit all her scores? I know of many schools that WILL take the best individual scores of ACT sections, as opposed to look at the composite only. I understand that you can select among ACT tests but I'm not sure why one would hesitate to send in a score that contain perfect subscores. </p>
<p>As usual it is important to check with individual schools. My recollection that very few schools (mostly large State school systems) prefer not to mix and match. </p>
<p>PS I do not know if any school might mix and match subscores of ACt and SAT, but I would not be surprise if some did. :)</p>
<p>PPS One ought to remember that very, very few schools will utilize the writing component. Even schools that routinely asked for a SAT-II Writing have expressed great concern about the essay scoring. Much of the discussion has centered around the SAT Essay scoring, but I would even have greater concerns about the ACT Essay.</p>
<p>xiggi, I was unaware of any schools that allowed you to mix and match ACT subsections. Then again, I can't recall too many (some ) that told me you couldn't.;)</p>
<p>xiggi, on the ACT essay, I would think the scoring would be more reliable than the SAT because the ACt topics are always so narrow (e.g. school uniforms: good or bad?) and because ACT doesn't really claim to grade "holistically" like the CB. So training and supervising readers should be a lot easier.</p>
<p>My daughter got a 7 on the essay for ACT, 11 on the SAT. But she kind of knew that she did a weak essay for the ACT - far too short. We've now figured out that length is important.</p>
<p>Anyway, my d. will also retake the ACT. With the SAT grade in hand, she's feeling pretty confident about her ability to raise the ACT score.</p>
<p>I don't know if the ACT writing scoring standards are harder than the SAT, or if it's just a fluke, or if the difference is in the way the test is structured: for SAT, they write the essay first thing in the morning, when they are still fresh; for ACT they do it after the rest of the test, when they are presumeably exhausted and anxious to get home. (Though I bet if the essay question was on the pros and cons of standardized testing, they could all find plenty to vent about).</p>
<p>Advice: retake. It can't hurt.</p>
<p>I do agree with Xiggi that colleges are going to be very cautious about the writing scores this time out - I think especially if there is a mediocre writing score in combination with high English & reading scores (as my daughter has) that the score is somewhat suspect, and that's probably why there is a combined English/writing score given.</p>
<p>The thing is, my son does not WANT to retake the test. He got a 36 on the reading and in fact got 34-36 on everything but math (which is not his strong subject.) He has been accepted to competitive writing programs throughout high school, including the University of Iowa Workshop and NYU dramatic writing and is an A student in honors English. This year he won first place prize in our city of 600,000 for the writing competition that was entered by all the high schools. He got a 77 on the writing part of the psat in 10th grade --taking it cold-- albeit of course it was not an essay. How much does an 8 on that ACT essay really mean? I mean, I KNOW it means nothing for this boy --and of course he could do better with some training on how to take the test, but he needs to keep his grades up next year, and there is the avalanche of work for his college applications, including USC screenwriting, which requires an enormous amount of material. This would be a big time-eater and a big pain in the ass. It would take away from everything else he has to do. Is it worth it, and will adcoms really pay any credence to an 8 on an essay for a boy like this, who will be submitting an extensive writing portfolio with his application? </p>
<p>Given his other credits in writing, do you think this will count against him --with a total score of 33 and 31 in English/Writing overall? </p>
<p>How much do you think this will really count against him?</p>
<p>mom - I feel your pain. I'm in the same situation with D...except reversed. Outstanding Reading (36) and Writing (34, 12 essay = 35)
decent math, but science was in the toilet. Composite ok for where she's applying, but, oy, that science....</p>
<p>D doesn't want to take ACT again in September, since she is an English major, but I am pushing for her just to try. Given score choice with ACT, it cannot hurt. And yes, prep will eat at her limited time. </p>
<p>Personally, I think colleges want kids who can write and if the schools your son is applying to require the ACT with writing, then make book on the fact that the schools WILL look at that 8. Will it be the deal-breaker? Who knows? I guess it depends on how many other kids with comparable stats scored higher.</p>
<p>Momofdzt, the answer to your question is - who knows? Probably very little at any school that requires an extensive writing portfolio for a specific major as you describe, probably very little at any school that actually evaluates his resume. The way it would most hurt is at a state school with specific standards/ scores. I would look hard at USC's requirements, both in general, and for screenwriting in particular. What were the typical SATII writing scores for admitted students, can you ferret out that info? There is no track record on the ACT or SAT essay obviously. </p>
<p>SOme have posted in the past, in regards to the SATII writing, that the best writers often don't do so great on the test essay, because it is so different than creative writing or even good essay writing, and the process is not at all what the kid is accustomed to doing. It is like the highly intelligent, creative kid, who doesn't ace standardized tests because they read too much into the questions.</p>
<p>Curmudge, not sure if this is relevant, or means anything, but Dartmouth must attach some importance to particular subscores of the ACT - specifically Math and English - because they have "fields" in their computer system for those scores. I guess the question is does the school just use these for placement purposes for admitted students, or is that how they crosswalk to the SAT for admissions. DD just got a letter with a printout of the scores they had on file, as a last check before the First Year Office uses the scores for fall course placements.</p>
<p>While not directly relevant to the OP's question, here's a list of a "ranking" of schools accepting the ACT. </p>
<p>Pomona College 30-33
Middlebury College - 29-32
Reed College - 29-32
Amherst College - 28-33
Vassar College - 28-32
Claremont McKenna College - 28-32
Grinnell College - 28-31
Dartmouth College - 27-33
Kenyon College - 27-32
College of William and Mary - 27-31
Wellesley College - 27-31
Davidson College - 27-31
Carleton College - 27-31
Macalester College - 27-31
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology - 27-31
Colby College - 27-30
Barnard College - 27-30
Wheaton College - 26-31
Oberlin College - 26-31
Colorado College - 26-30 </p>
<p>Clicking through the individual schools should help finding their latest position on the ACT. </p>
<p>PS Several selective schools are missing from the list, despite accepting SAT scores. </p>
<p>A quick note: From the Univeristy of Georgia:
"If a student takes the SAT or ACT more than once, we will consider the best scores we receive for each section on either exam."</p>
<p>OK - reality check -- for us all. And I withdraw my advice to retake the test. The difference between your son and my daughter is that my d. WANTS to retake the test.</p>
<p>If your son doesn't want to retake the test, there's no issue: he doesn't retake it.</p>
<p>It's his life & his decision.</p>
<p>I assume that he is applying to a an appropriate range of reach-match-safety schools. Whatever difference the score makes probably would only affect whatever colleges are on the high end of his reaches -- that is, places where admission is iffy anyway. It's certainly not going to hurt him at his safeties. </p>
<p>If your son has ONE good safety (sure admit) college that he would be happy to attend, then stop worrying. If he is applying to colleges with very intensive writing requirements, those colleges probably want him to submit a graded writing sample, and they will likely weight the writing sample and his essays far more important than his score on the ACT. </p>
<p>Our responsibility as parents goes as far as helping to find the information our kids need to make decisions, and perhaps some nudging for kids who seem to lack the motivation or initiative to get started on their own. Obviously your son does not fit into this latter category -- he clearly knows what he wants and is busy working toward that. </p>
<p>I hope I don't sound too harsh with this post, but we parents really need to get used to the fact that our kids are living their own lives, and the world isn't going to come to an end if they don't get into their dream school.</p>
<p>I agree. He does not want to retake it. period. It is what it is. He will get where he gets. I spoke to an adcom at a top LAC and was told they will pay attention mostly to the composite score --33-- and will look at the writing he sends much more than the ACT essay score. I am not going to make any fuss about this at all.</p>
<p>Momofdzt - Looks like you've already come to a good conclusion, but I wanted to add our situation, which is very similar. My D got the same score as your S - 33 composite / 8 essay. Her Dad wanted her to retake, but she didn't want to. That was fine with me, even tho, aside from the essay, her lowest scores were math & science - her strengths. But I figured her aps will show her strong points in other ways, as your S's will. For the ACT to show very strong scores for their 'weaker' side can only be a plus.</p>
<p>It's a pleasure to see restraint and moderation for once. Very nice.</p>
<p>I think the colleges have to know that an essay score on a standardized test is highly highly variable. That plus the fact that they have no trend data on this thing, and I just can't see them using it as much of a factor especially when the student is showing other more relevant indicators of writing ability like A's in English, strong application essays, letter of rec from English teacher, or whatever. </p>
<p>The ACT essay is such a strange beast too. The June topic was basically "are school sports good or bad?" and somebody I know who is a great athlete but has never written higher than a 7, went off on this topic and got an 11. His essay was confident, long, and rich in examples, simply because he was well versed in the subject matter. So it's a lame exercise.</p>
<p>For someone whose only weakness was the Science, I would say to maybe think about taking it again if the first time you took it was totally cold. I see really good test-takers screw up the Science all the time, mostly because of timing and unfamiliarity. There's nothing else like the ACT Science on any other standardized test. Jumping up 5-7 points the second time you take it, after you've learned how quickly you have to move and how much you can simply ignore, is not unusual.</p>
<p>2400: Sounds like revenge of the jocks. . .My son got the "school sports" ACT essay topic. He's homeschooled, so didn't have much perspective on this issue and got a 7 (ouch). He's a math/science kid--dislikes writing, tends to be journalistic--just the facts and no padding. He got a 9 on the SAT essay, which I thought was more his true level. That topic was about political systems. He was aiming for 32 or above on ACT, but got a 31. High science, English, math, but low reading (his highest on SAT) score brought him down. Now the decision: retake or no? SAT scores were better, overall.</p>
<p>If your kids retake, PLEASE tell them that their facts & argument does not have to be true or genuine. I told my daughter that if she has no ideas, then take an Emily Letilla approach - just treat it as a ridiculous assertion make up some silly arguments and act (write) passionately about them. I mean, an essay about school sports could have some totally ridiculous arguments -- just get something out on paper and state it coherently.</p>
<p>The graders for both the ACT and SAT are instructed to totally disregard factual accuracy of anything. So you could argue that school sports are important to honor the athletic achievements of Abraham Lincoln in basketball, and it wouldn't detract from the score. </p>
<p>Obviously if they have something valuable to say, it will make for a better essay overall -- but the point is, the kid should not be wasting time trying to think too hard about the merits of what he/she is going to write. </p>
<p>An alternative tip for helping to think of what to write is to pretend that you are someone else (in another role) writing the essay. Sometimes if you remove the sense of "self" from the writing process, it gets easier. (I think that's partly the appeal of blogs and forums like this - we get to hide behind the anonymity of a fake screen name). </p>
<p>Anyway, whatever the kid does, she should not be sitting there frozen because everything that she has thought of to say seems dumb or prosaic. Dumb ideas written clearly on paper will get 12's, brilliant ideas thought up after the time limit has expired get nothing.</p>
<p>It is really unfortunate that this is the way our kids are tested for writing, because obviously writing empty blather and nonsense are not requisites for doing well in college.... (though, to tell the truth, that skill didn't hurt me on midterms in classes where perhaps I had not studied as well as I should have). But I'll close this post with an inspirational quote from our likely soon-to-be supreme court Justice John Roberts, in a memo to his supervisor: ""Is this draft response O.K. - i.e., does it succeed in saying nothing at all?"</p>